Fast Running Blog

I have a teenage daughter who says she wants to run with me and I agreed to it (she is on the HS soccer team, so she is in decent shape and perfectly capable), but whenever it comes time to go, she finds all sorts of excuses.  Do I keep trying to get her out, or should I just let it go?

Keeping encouraging her but don't push too hard, otherwise when she does go she may resent it more and never really enjoy it.  Instead, keep enticing her by demonstrating how much you get out of it and how much you enjoy it and maybe she will then want to experience it for herself.  Pushing kids to do something they don't want to do (but you want them to do it) may work in the short term, but will backfire in the longterm.

ditto...I was "highly encouraged" to play piano as a child and was unable to "get out of it" for 4-5 years.  Guess what?  I haven't touched a piano since...don't plan on it either.  Sounds like soccer is a great outlet for her.  They'll keep her in shape.  If you keep modelling and enjoying it yourself, perhaps some day she'll finally join you. 

I agree with the don't push theory. I have boys 6 and 9. The 6 year old will periodically ask if he can run with me. When he does I take him for my warm up around the block (about 1/2 mile). The 9 year old is not as inclined. I have noticed a great way to get them involved is to ask if they want to do a 'fun run' when I'm running a race. Most races have a 1 mile fun run or a 5k fun run. Depending on how this run coincides with the race I'm doing I usually run this with them in lieu of my warm up.

Dave:

What would have happened if your mom did not "highly encourage" you to play the piano? My guess is that you would have never touched it anyway. With some "encouragement" at least you have learned something.

Kelli:

If she commits to anything at night, and then refuses to live up to the commitment in the morning, no matter what it is, hold her accountable. Out of bed, water or snow to wake up if  needed, find some privileges to withdraw, etc. Flakiness is a bad quality to live with, she will be thankful to you when she is an adult.

What I've seen with my kids. At first they are excited to run - for a day or two. Then it becomes a chore and they start looking for excuses. Then they are out of excuses and learn to enjoy it somewhat. Then they win a race or two, and they start to get it.

Absolutely nothing wrong with making kids work. You make them work, overtime work becomes their second nature. You have enabled them to enjoy work. That is the greatest gift you can give them because they will have to do some form of work for most of their lives.

Sasha, have you been talking to my mom?  Yeah, I hear you.  Nothing lost by learning a little Mozart and Beethoven.  However, my response was to Kelli wanting her daughter to come to enjoy running.  I think by Kelli's example, her daughter may some day quite possibly come to love it.  At the same time, there's a fine line towards turning someone off through force or coersion and helping them to discover a potentially awesome outlet.  Worse case scenario...maybe she never comes to enjoy running...is that so bad? 

First, does she want to improve as a soccer player or as a runner? If your daughter is a soccer player, it may only be beneficial for her to run a few miles at a time. Her sport and position require different training and skills than a runner. do not feel bad if she only runs a few miles (or even minutes) with you when she does run. You have to remember that all run training is not created equal, and does not have beneficial transfer throughout all sports. 

If i were you, I would encourage her to run in such a way as to mimick soccer. Teach her to fartlek, or jog with the ball for a mile or two, or run around the soccer field for minutes at a time. Doing so she trains for soccer, and will improve far greater as a player. This is a better way to encourage her to get out and run while still helping her as a player.

If she wants to be a runner, then you encourage that. Until she wants to be a runner, encourage the correct training for the sport she does play.

Kids should be pushed rather than convinced since their experience in life is short. Some kids need more convincing and others more pushing. I like to create "envy" with my kids, so they want to do it too. Once they see your interest in them, it gets easier. Excuses will always exist, that is when we need to 'push' harder.
Hope my cents worth' is usefull.  ;)

Looking back at  my life as a teenager I recalled three activities/areas of study where I was forced enough to be bothered by and remember it to the day. They were military science, history, and running.

Military Science

Background: In the Soviet Union military science was part of the high school curriculum. I had good reasons to resent it. To me it represented the effort of a corrupt regime to keep itself in power, and I realized that I was being trained to be a pawn in the hands of the Communist Party to carry on its work. I had no realistic choice to say no. I tried, and was informed that the consequences would be to be expelled from school. I was not willing to face those consequences. You had to have your high school diploma to enroll into college or to get any kind of job. So I bit the bullet and very resentfully toughed it out.

Aftermath: I did not up with a career in the army, but at the same time I do not have any kind of distaste for the military science because I was  forced to learn it. Quite on the contrary, I am thankful to have had the opportunity to shoot from a rifle, take apart and clean AK-47, and even practice firing from it. I learned that it was not as easy as the movies made it look, and I also learned that when guns are being shot, one needs to be extra cautious. I never realized that I instinctively knew it until I observed a few of my American friends during the 1993 coup attempt in Moscow who apparently had only seen firing guns in movies. One of them ended up getting shot and barely surviving after a significant amount of time in intensive care. She climbed on the roof of a building to get a better view. Another wanted to get a really good view on camera, and walked on the bridge towards the Russian White House, right in between the White House and the tanks on the other side of the river. He realized the error of his ways when a bullet whizzed by his ear. He did make it back unharmed with some footage, but only barely, and very very scared.  In both cases, those individuals were college graduates with experience, not just some teenagers looking for adventure.

History

Background: We were required to learn the Communist view of the Soviet history of the 20th century. Our teacher was a hard line communist with an agenda, and in addition to that, a lady with a temper and an attitude. She insisted that we take notes during class, taught the stuff that was not in the textbook, and not easily found anywhere else (no Internet back then), and then gave you a failing grade if you recited the textbook perfectly but forgot to include her special details. Those details were not something they would have reported on BBC, either, just some extra propaganda material, usually something special that Lenin said, did, or thought. I had no interest in a career in history, and was not willing to do any more than learn the basics at least in that area. No way out of the class, just like military science. I resented the class a lot, and tried to be a smart alec at every opportunity. One time she gave us an assignment to write a report on the countries of the world. She assigned East and West Germany separately. I, of course, could not miss the chance to suggest the possibility that by the time the report was due they would be one country. She told me: "This would not happen for another 10 years, I am telling you this as a historian!". I was off only by 6 months. Needless to say, history was towards the top of the list of my least favorite subjects.

Aftermath: I did not become a historian but I actually do study history once in a while on my own, including the Soviet period. Even then, during the days of my rebellion, as immature as I was, I knew enough to recognize the difference between my dislike of the Soviet system and its use of history for the purpose of indoctrination, and history as a study of what has actually happened. After joining the LDS church I became interested in history from the spiritual perspective - to see the evidence of how righteousness leads to happiness, and sin to unhappiness on a personal as well as national level.

Running

Background: After some searching and trying I finally found the sport I was good at, and I poured all of my heart into it. However, once I began to show a good measure of talent (3:03.8 1000, 10:18 3000, 37:38 10 K before turning 13), my coach for some odd reason started training me like you would a very resilient adult world-class runner. 4 speed workouts a week on the track, all hard. I began to dread them. I did not want to do them, but I wanted to run, I wanted to have a coach, and I did not have enough social aptitude or drive to change the coach. So I dragged my way through those workouts. Over the next year my times improved only marginally, while my physical growth halted. I was the same height at 14 as I was at 13. That resulted in some social problems that would have been easy to blame on running. It was a frustrating period in my life.

Aftermath: I eventually got into an (immature) argument with my coach and that gave me the kick in the pants I needed to find a different coach. After easing off on the mileage and intensity I started growing physically again. Till this day I've never missed more than 3 consecutive days of running, and it's been 24 years since I started. I have not yet realized the potential my 12 year old performances predict, but I am not giving up hope. Quite often I wonder if whatever I had was permanently destroyed during that period of overtraining at a sensitive age, while hoping almost against hope that I can find a cure at the age of 35. But regardless, what happened happened, and I still want to run. I feel it is a part of my calling in life, there is some work I am supposed to accomplish through it, so  I keep running.

Bottom line: If the child's calling in life is to do something, he will find a way to like doing it, even if being pushed/motivated/encouraged improperly. Otherwise, if he is able to maturely evaluate the experience, he will still be OK and will have learned something and be thankful for it. If he does not know how to maturely evaluate prior experiences, it is a bigger problem, but it will affect many other areas of his life as well. Ironically, the pain of being pushed at an early age may very well end up being the teacher of the much needed maturity.

Her soccer coach (the season is over) told her she needs to work on both her speed and her endurance, but mostly endurance, over the winter.  She gets tired out quite fast.  So she has awesome speed at the beginning of a game, but it peters out towards the end and they just pull her out quite often.  She is constantly getting outrun.  Because of this she came to me for help.  I have the endurance in the family, her dad has the speed (short distances).  She asked me to run with her a few times a week and we decided that 3 miles would be a good starting point.  Our regular 3 mile route is a bit of a hill the first mile, so by mile 1.2 she is always crying and gasping for air.  Her breathing is all messed up from the second she starts running!  I do not know how to teach breathing to her.  I give her suggestions, but she says I am criticizing her.  (Does this sound like a teenage girl, or what?)   We will walk for a minute, and then get going again and she does okay for the last 1.5 as it is a nice gradual downhill.  She can also put on a pretty good sprint at the end, but then she needs a nap!

Anyway, yesterday she came to me and ASKED me to run.  We still had the crying and fit throwing, but she was nice and apologetic after at dinner.  I just want to help her in whatever way is best, and make her NOT hate it so much.  Our avg pace has been about 9:30, and next time I am going to try to slow her down a little more and see if that helps.  But, she can run a mile in 6:30 (as per the test at school), but only ONE mile, then she dies and needs a nap. 

Oh, and we run in the afternoon when she gets home from school, so she can not complain about getting up early!

Lots of rambling there, but my main questions are how to help her figure out how to breathe so she does not sound like she is dying and end up with a sideache (she says it helps her keep her tempo, whatever!), how to get the most out of 3 miles for endurance and when to move to speed work.  Sasha always says to build up the endurance first, and that is the main problem here! 

I am trying to be the best "coach" and mom I can be with minimal crying and tantrums during a run!  And for the record, I have not so much as even raised my voice once with her!

Kelli, I remember when I was young (about 12) a few occasions that I was at my fathers office. It came to be lunch hour and since my dad only had 1 hour, he couldn't make it home for lunch, so he had lunch in nearby places. He invited me (of course) with him for lunch, but we had to walk maybe 1 or 1.5 miles to the place. He walked very quickly (I guess he was hungry) and would leave me behind. Of course, as a child, I would whine and complain about this, but my fathers answer was simple: "if you want to have lunch with me, you need to keep up with me". Said this, he would turn around and continue at his pace. So I had to learn to keep up and stop complaining (or other wise no lunch for me...).

Be firm! Kids can play parents so easily...

Hey, Eric, there is an Iceberg along our run.  Maybe I should tell her we are running to the SHAKES!!

I started running because I had a bunch of friends go out for the cross country team.  Maybe she could start running with her friends right after school?

As for moving to speedwork, I wouldn't worry about that for a while.  Like not until track season. That would be a really good way for her to build up her speed as well as endurance if she runs the mile or two.

And breathing. I think breathing is a hard thing to do. When I started to run, it just gradually came to me. Now when I start running, my body instantly goes into the breathing pattern I need to sustain my pace.  Let it be natural, because actively forcing a breathing can mess you up.

Soccer players (in play the whole 90 minutes of the game) will run upwards of 5-6 miles. But it is not the same kind of running as a 5-6 mile run. The sports (soccer and running) are not the same, and the athlete needs to be trained accordingly.

To increase the endurance she needs, she needs to be training like a soccer player the majority of the time, and supplement that training with the runs. One of the reasons she is having difficulty adapting to runner training is that she has not developed that ability (the ability to just run straight out) yet. She is used to run hard, jog a little, walk a little, run hard again, run backwards, jog over here, run over there, walk some, run hard again, etc. But, she can run a 6:30 mile off of that training. This is a good sign. It also means that running at 9:30-10 minute pace may be more slow, painful, boring, and possibly unecessary (to a point) for her. That is the pace she might jog for only a few steps during the game.

My recommendations for helping her on the straight run portion:
1) Don't worry about the breathing. First because that comes the more she runs, second because it doesn't affect your running one way or another, and third, because rather than training to teach her to breath, it may be better to teach her how to get into running rhythm (which may also help with the side ache issues).

2) Two, have her focus on running for minutes, not miles. Her sport isn't measured in miles, but minutes. First help her get to 15, then 20, then 25, with the goal to be 40 minutes (which I assume would be how long the high school halves are). This will help her build her confidence on the fact that she can run for the whole half if she needs to.

3) If I were her coach, the majority of her training sessions each day should include soccer specific drills, sprints, etc. 2x a week I would have her work on minute on/off fartleks for 10 minutes initially, then 15, then 20 (including some time for warmup) as she gets better. Also 2x a week (on different days than the fartlek) I would have her focus on the easy conditioning runs of increasing time, usually as a warmup for soccer drills that would follow. This will provide sufficient endurance for her sport.

From expierence, however, the ability to run the whole game means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING if concentration on fast running and soccer specific ball drills is neglected. My sophmore year of high school I trained for the marathon (not really smart, but I got hooked on running). I my longest run was a little over 20 miles, but I during a soccer game couldn't chase the ball downfield for the life of me without falling into "running" paces. More than once my coaches would take me aside and say- "Adam, you look like you are jogging out there---you need to sprint!" I thought I was running hard (maybe around 5-6min mile pace was all I was doing). From a different perspective, while in Japan, my older brother played semi-pro soccer (he was 15yrs old). I never saw him run more than a mile, and he never wanted to. He was that way all throughout college. Whenever I went for a run, he would usually say something like: "that's crazy stuff- I maybe could do it though if I had a ball in front of me the whole time". He would also say "it was pointless" to train more than that for soccer, because "why would you run more than you have to in a game?". While there is some scientific backing to his method of training, what really made him a great player was that, like a runner would do, he had no problem going out and doing focused training every day, sometimes multiple times a day, for hours. If the drive to practice the sport everyday is lacking in anyway, there is NO AMOUNT of endurance training that will lead to improvement in play.

Sorry about the length of the post (most of my graduate assignments right now are focused on sport specificity training so it is hard not to get carried away).

WOW Adam, thank you.  That was very helpful!  Thanks for taking the time to spell it all out for me, and coming from someone who knows what they are talking about both in running and soccer makes it useful to me for sure.

She wants to run track this spring, as many of her friends from soccer do.  She actually really likes running, or so she says, she just is not enjoying it with me!  I will leave the breathing to her, and take many of your suggestions.  I think she is a little hung up on the fact that her mom can kick her butt in running and she wants to beat me, so I think that is where the desire to run came from.  We will see where she decides to take it.  She is a great soccer player and I am glad she has something she loves!  If she continues to show the same desire to run, we will work on it, if not, we will stick with soccer (which is her dad's category, not mine!)  Our Thursday run was preempted by soccer practice this week, but we did get in the one run.  I have found a different route that I think might be easier for her, so we will give that a try next week and play it by ear.  And I will have her dad work with her on the other drills/speedwork over the winter (as will her indoor soccer coach).

Okay, I have decided to go back to the basics.  We are going to walk/run atarting at a 2 minute to 2 minute ratio, then bump it up to 3:1 and see how it goes.  I guess I just assumed she was in shape enough to just run, but I was wrong!!  She really wants to do this, so i have to try to not get frustrated and just take it much slower.

Kind of off subject but to darn cute not to share.  My 2 year old likes to run with her daddy so we do relays around the house before I go out to run.  She will stretch with me too and even put my watch on when she runs.  She does one lap, stops looks at the watch and says 7:30, then its my turn :)

PS no idea where the 7:30 comes from.

THAT IS DANG CUTE!!!

My son, now 11 years old loves to run, but I think alot of that running love and running skills came from 2 things. He started out in soccer at 5 years old and was just born fast, he would score up to 10 goals in a game (not that there is any defense in 5 year olds soccer). Later he played for a club in competitive soccer (Sparta). He also developed alot of leg strength because he liked to go hiking with me in the mountains.

What makes running interesting and fun for him is variety - doing different lengths of runs from the 100 meter in track to the half marathon (once), also he likes running in different areas versus the same neighborhood run, he especially likes runs where there is scenary (versus just looking at houses or urban streets, he likes running with different people anyone from slow Dad (me) to kids his age (he can relate too) to older kids (he likes to try to beat someone older). I think meeting kids his age that like to run have created the most interest. Rewards from improving his time, doing a new PR, prizes for good finishes, race drawing prizes, after race treats all help some, but I think the encouragement he gets from me, his relatives, other adult runners have helped the most. Encouragement from great runners like Sasha and others seems to instill alot of excitement to keep running and do better.

I think I read once that an average pro soccer player runs like 8 miles in a game, so endurance is certainly a plus in soccer. Since he became a runner, he seems to last much longer with energy and endurance than most of the other players and he takes some pride in that and I think that makes him want to run more

I kind of try to balance things. Push him some but not so much that it causes resentment but enough to get him to pursue it. I give him alot of encouragement but we also talk about on ways to improve and strive. Variety and making it fun seems to have worked alot for him

This sounds like how I was when I first started running.  It wasn't anything big, I just needed to get in shape and before long it wasn't a problem to me anymore. 

UPDATE:  For those of you who do not read my blog. my daughter ran her first 5k this past weekend.  She finished just under 29 minutes, but came in first in her age group.  She went to school today and signed up to do winter track!  I was patient with her, she learned she could do it, her 5k was a little slow for her but there were some pretty good hills, and now she says she is hooked!!  We will see where it goes from here.

Hey Kelli, congrats! Better be careful, your daughter will soon beat you!!

Cheers!

On a 5k for sure---she has the speed that I do not!!!  But i would be thrilled if she beat me!  THRILLED!!!