Fast Running Blog

After the bad weather at several marathons over the weekend, I have already seen many runners discussing trying to maintain/improve fitness and do a marathon sometime in the next 4 months, rather than calling it a season now.  Having a blog contingency somewhere could be a lot of fun.  Who would be interested, and what marathons sound good?  I am already eyeing Rocket City, St. Jude, PF Chang's Rock-n-Roll, CIM, LA marathon, etc.

I'm game for almost any of those.

CIM looks fast and at sea-level

P.F. Chang- fairly flat I think?

St. Jude- Saturday race!

When is the LA Marathon?

For selfish reasons I'd be really interested in going to Tucson (fast, downhill=PR). However if a group was going to PF or CIM I'd feel good about that too. I'm leaning more on sticking to something in the wild wild West as opposed to the mid or Eastern portion of our beautiful country.

I know those guys that went to Tucson last year said the course was different and slower than advertised.  Clyde I think we could probably get a good group to go to either of those in the west.  I know the Bull, and Mike are wanting another marathon soon, as well as myself.  Hooper's dad lives in Sacramento and maybe he would feel in shape enough to run.

PF Changs is in January and is pancake flat (ask jtshad).  However, it is on a Sunday for those who have qualms about running on a Sunday.  So is Tucson, for that matter.  LA Marathon is on president's day (Feb. 16), is basically at sea level, and although it has a bit of undulation to it, would probably be a pretty fast marathon.  Last year's winner ran 2:13, and that appeared to be in less than ideal conditions.  It appears that we already have a fairly large blogger contingent interested in LA, if that would help to pique interest.

I need redemption for my whole year, but it's all dependent on my latest injury situation. For me, St. Jude is my first choice, simply because the course is a loop, it's on a Saturday, money 10 deep, and Sasha has said good things about it. I could be talked into CIM, because it's much closer and also pretty competitive, but it's also point-to-point and net downhill, which I'm trying to avoid. Tucson would probably be scenic, but like I said earlier, I'm pretty much through with downhill races. Plus, from most accounts, St. George is still quite a bit faster than Tucson, so PR's might be hard to come by anyway.

PF Chang I'm sure would be good, but I imagine I'll be in hibernation mode by then, and just trying not to freeze to death every day. Another cool-looking race is Carlsbad, late January. There is a half marathon and a marathon. I did the maps and profiles for it a few years ago, and thought it looked fun. It would be much lower-key than PF Chang (but still good comp), and Carlsbad/San Diego is a much cooler town than PHX.

Regarding LA, it is having a change in management, so hard to say what kind of race and what kind of competition it will be. But surely it will be an improvement over Devine. It would be fun to take FastRunningVan over with a whole bunch of people. But on the other hand, LA is a nightmare (think navigating traffic in a 15-passenger van), and I have no real desire to ever go there.

Anyone who can run their best race 30-60 days after SGM, you are a much stronger runner than I am.

I would not run LA. I have heard terrible things the past several years and the weather is very unpredictable...in a bad way.

One other to consider...Houston on Sunday, January 18th. I am running the half marathon as part of the USATF Half Marathon Championships. Both races are very fast. The winner last year won in 2:12 and the top American was 2:25 and change.

Waiting until January might give folks a better shot at truly getting redemption.

Registration for Houston is full but elites can still get in.

Good point, Sean.  Though after the way a few of us ran (me, in particular), it would not take a great individual race to beat my time from St. George.  :D

That said, I think 8 weeks would be a minimum for me to recover.  12-16 more ideal, but like Paul said, some of us "run" into winter training issues the later the marathon is.  Hard to run 80-90 mpw in the dark and on ice.

Recovery time will be my biggest issue. I'm guessing the first part of December might be too close... but I'll know within a couple weeks how I'm feeling and what the time frame will be. I'd really like to plan one with a group so I'd be willing to compromise my own agendas.

If you get lucky, it won't start snowing in earnest (except for you Logan peeps) until January. By that time you will be tapering for Houston...where it won't be snowy or icy.

Yup, except for us Logan fools. I had an free entry, hotel, and flight to Houston for the Half Marathon Champs last year. But then I developed tendinitis in my hamstring, probably due to poor traction on icy and snowy roads. Had to cancel my entry. Ever since then I've been jaded about trying to hold a peak for winter racing.

Oh how I would love a redemption race, I just don't know if I am up to extending my training.  I have been going scence the begining of the year and I am ready for some rest.  Plus I told my husband I would be done racing for a while.

PF Chang Rock N Roll Arizona is indeed a pretty good course, although not quite pancake flat.  It is not very scenic and the support is ok.

I am also looking into a "redemption" race and am looking at the Space Coast Marathon in Florida on Nov. 30.  I have a friend who lives right there, it is VERY flat at sea level and the winning times are reasonable for consideration of placement.

I may be in Florida at the end of November for work... and I stay right by the course.

I've tried redemption races before, and most of them went just as bad or even worse than the original unless I calmed down and was successful in discovering and fixing the cause of underperformance.

I would recommend a local 5 K for redemption if you are itching to redeem yourself. At least you can try it several times. And the probability of something going wrong is much smaller.

Wow...Space Coast looks very winnable

I am interested in any information on the CIM. It looks to have a nice downhill profile. I would love to get a BQ. I need to shave 22 minutes of my St George time in the elements. I feel like I can be ready to do that in December. I would love to do a group run, even if I would be the slowest of the bunch!
Looking at the profile on Tucson I like it a lot too!

I only know one person who has run CIM...Mike Sayenko. It's what he used to OTQ. Based on my conversations with him about it, I wouldn't get too excited about the elevation drop in terms of aiding your time much. That said, I have heard it's a beautiful one to run.

I'm looking to run CIM myself, because it's not too bad of a travel.  But I could be persuaded to run somewhere else that everyone else is going to go to.

Sasha in this case it was the weather that most of us struggled with. As for myself a local 5k sounds like death- plus it's not going to scratch the itch.

Chad was telling me a little about CIM and said it wasn't as great (speed wise) as it looked.

Dave - we need to get Chad on here and give us details about CIM.  What then do other suggest?

Actually I would almost rather run a flat marathon with no downhill to see how I would do.  I ran the Silicon Valley Marathon last November in California and it's pretty much flat (2:45).  But I didn't think I had enough recovery time from St. George when I did this one 4 weeks later. 

I'm the same as Kory- flat!

For what it's worth:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2705125

Seeing as to how most of you got messed over by the wind, you might want to avoid a point-to-point course as a redemption race. It would be a shame to run CIM, and then have a headwind the whole time again.

But other than being point-to-point, and not as fast as it looks, I've generally heard very good things about CIM.

A redemption race is only a redemption race if you give yourself enough time to recover and then train again. But for those who must scratch the itch, Memphis may be your best bet. Also take a look at the Rocket City Marathon in Alabama (http://www.runrocketcity.com/). You know you want to go to Alabama. The winning time last year was 2:27...not bad.

Hey guys- I'm originally from Sacramento and I've run CIM as a relay 3 times in the late ninetees and then the full marathon back in late 2005. I know the course almost as well as any course in Salt Lake.

I didn't do very well on the marathon because I underestimated it. The downhill is really slight and only in the begining miles as you come out of Folsom. The first half has rolling hills and the last half is pretty flat. I think the last 10 miles are very flat with the exception of a bridge that you have to cross to get over the river by Sac State.

In terms of wind- you have to be careful. Folsom is basically east of Sacramento, so the course goes east -> west. I can tell you that an east wind in Sacramento is very rare, and a west wind is very common. Especially in December if there is bad weather. That part of the country isn't particularly windy if there is a high pressure sitting over CA- you just get some sea breezes in the afternoon to cool things off occassionally in the summer. But keep in mind that Sacramento weather is kind of like UT weather- very dry in the summer and very wet in the winter. December can be wet. If it's a clear day, the weather is pretty ideal. Bottom line- there will be no tail wind.

I have looked over a few marathons coming up in the west in December and January;
7DEC Tucson Marathon, last year winning time 2:24:59  1027 finished. This is supposed to be a fast downhill race.(2200 foot fall)
7DEC CIM Sacramento, last year winning time 2:14:30  4740 finished. Looks like a slight downhill race. See other comments above on this one.
18JAN PF Chang's Rock n Roll, last year winning time 2:14:13  6499 finished. Flat- very slight grade up for first 12 miles then slight down.
31JAN Arizona Desert Classic, last year winning time 2:51  59 finished. Gradual up (300') in first 9 miles down 200' to half way point then turn around. This is outside of Phoenix in Surprise,AZ. Very small...
So far I am liking the Tucson Marathon; small at just over 1000 runners with a good fast course. Has anyone been to this race or really know what the course is like?

I have heard good things about Tuscon.  I have a friend who BQ'd there this year the she went on to run a solid race at Boston with an injury.  She seemed to really like it and thought the course was a fair and faster course.

Thanks jtshad,
The only thing I don't like about it is the sunday race.
I love that it is not too big.
I think if a group of runners went down there there is a good chance of taking most of the tops spots since last year a 2:24:59 won it. The top ten places ranged from 2:24 to 2:52.

Scott, the desert classic marathon is actually out and back twice - they changed the course, and the course map they have is incorrect.  I created a course for it in the course tool on the blog, if you want to take a look at it.  I was seriously considering this one since it is only about 30 miles from where I live, and I suppose that if others were going to do this one, I might reconsider.  It is a small marathon (thus the slow times), but the elevation is not too bad.  I was just planning on doing London's Run (1/2 marathon) that day, as it benefits children's cancer charities, and was probably going to do Los Angeles on Feb. 16.  Kate Danner ran Tucson last year trying to get an OTQ, I believe.

Tucson is the cousre I finally quilified on, that year I ran SG in 3:53 and Tucson in 3:29.  I hardly ever run SG that well.  What I remeber (back in 2000) is that Tuscon is like a mini SG, it has the ups and the rolling as well as the down just on a smaller scale.  I remeber hating the end, it was a good uphill.  I have heard they changed the ending.

I haven't seen anyone mention the Las Vegas Marathon on Sunday, December 7.  Although it is a Devine race.....nuff said.  I may give it a try this year just because I live in Vegas.  In the past couple of years they have had pretty crappy weather and December weather in Vegas is pretty unpredictable and usually involves wind.  Las Vegas is a fairly flat loop course so the wind would only be a factor for certain parts of the course.

I see some were looking for info on the CIM.  One of our newest bloggers, though he has not posted a run yet, said in his bio he ran a 2:19:35 there last year.  He was 4th overall and the 1st American.

http://wcapsoldier.fastrunningblog.com/

Hi All.  First time poster, long time blogger. 

I drove Tucson three weeks ago because it is my "Fall" marathon.  It's back-roads the first few miles with a big drop early.  Then you get good rolling hills next 2-3 miles before a steady grade down toward the 1/2 point.  Rolling hills again about 1/2 way, then gradual down again toward the finish where you have some rolling hills again the last two miles.  The course is open to traffic and almost 1/2 it is on a 5 lane road.  I'm still excited to run it and would love to see some other bloggers down there.  It does look fast, but without Veyo or the extreme drops at St. George.

In regards to Vegas, I have run this one and it is flat.  The first 5 miles is great as you run down the strip then it is boring!  You run through and industrial area on 5-lane road...but it is flat and can be fast.

I ran Tucson with the Wild Bull and Steve Hooper (Steve got sick, did not run) last year.  The 2:24 winning time is a little mis-leading. (its was a Kenyan)  They changed the course a couple days prior to the race.  It was close to the middle of the marathon.  They added an up and back section.  This was a BEAST, very steep rollers, a total of 6 miles.  Also, the first mile is down hill but then you get 2 miles of steep climb.  I don't know if that is part of the original course or not.  When you look at the elevation map, it's all nice downhill.  This is very mis-leading.  I have never heard or seen so many people mad at a marathon.  I was fine with it.  Had not been training before I ran this race and had no expectations.  If they bring the original course back, yes you will have a chance at a very fast time. 

One other detail.  They do not shut the road down.  You are running on the shoulder and its not very wide.  There was not alot of local support.  Steve, Bull and myself had a hard time even finding people who new a marathon was being ran.  We did have a great time and the scenry is pretty cool.  I would love to run this baby one more time.  If they change the course back.

Tucson is not near sea level, for those who care about that.  It's about 2,500, and is the main reason Tucson is cooler than the Phoenix area, if what I heard is correct.  I am looking for a flat, sea level race.  Phoenix's elevation is about 1,100.  Is there a difference in racing speed between 200ft elevation (that's what I assume a true sea level race would be) and 1,100ft?

I would say absolutely, there is a difference.  I remember one time last year when we spent some time by the beach in Del Mar with Lybi's parents.  I went for a run one evening and was amazed at how easy it was to run faster and longer.  And that was coming from 1300 ft elevation to about 100.  If you want a pancake flat, sea-level marathon, you ought to consider the Walt Disney World marathon.  Starting elevation: 89 ft.  Ending elevation: 89 ft.  Minimum elevation: 74 ft.  Maximum elevation: 110 ft.  That one is on January 11.

Whoops, that one is apparently on a Sunday as well.  I thought it was on a Saturday.

If you believe Jack Daniels, then altitude doesn't really have a verifiable impact until aboiut 4,000 feet. I run most of my runs at 1,000 feet and there is absolutely no noticeable difference when I am running at sea level. I wouldn't let a 2,500 elevation race deter you. It won't make a difference unless you let your head tell you otherwise. Even when I travel from Seattle to visit family in SLC, I don't really notice much of a difference.

The St. Jude Marathon looks like a very nice course and race.  I really want to try and run something as flat as possible and not aided.  My goal is to get a good analysis on an effort with no favorable downhill.

It has only been one day since my marathon so I might still be a little out of my mind but I am considering a redemption marathon as well.  I am looking at Huntsville.  It is my company's headquarters so I travel there often.  I have heard good things about it and the course looks favorable.  It is also a Saturday race and last year's winning time was around 2:27 so some of you might have a chance at winning some prize money.