Fast Running Blog

USATF page:
http://www.usatf.org/events/2012/OlympicTrials-Marathon-Men/entry/qualifyingStandards.asp

LetsRun.com discussion:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2694507

A few things I find very interesting:

1. They changed the standards they originally announced last year. Rather than following IAAF standards on elevation drop (1m/km), they made Boston the benchmark. Thus no course can have a drop of more than 450 ft. Not only does this keep Boston in, but also allows California International and a few other downhill courses remain. But obviously TOU, Ogden, and St. Geo are still way way out.

2. Along with being more liberal than IAAF on the elevation drop, I see nothing about point-to-point course restrictions. This of course, would alleviate problems with Boston, New York, and others. I'm rather surprised at this, but it will definitely make picking a marathon easier. Before it was looking like there would be a list of 10 or so eligible marathons.

3. The qualifying window begins on Jan 1, 2009. That gives people almost 3 years to qualify. This is a much bigger window than any previous Trials. And of course there is a one-day window this Sunday at the U.S. Championships. They've done that before, but never 4 years before the next Olympics!

4. Any Top 10 finisher at the U.S. Marathon Championships will qualify for Trials, as long as they run under 2:22. This will not only bring more excitement and bodies to Twin Cities (or wherever the future championships will be), but also gives some wiggle-room if people get an horrible hot day like last year. Most of our top-tier marathoners historically do NOT run Twin Cities (rather, they run Chicago or NY), and we may see some wildcards slipping into the Top 10. Desperation attempts in 2011 will be interesting, with everyone jockying for position rather than time. Very cool idea.

5. I have not yet seen anything for women. I'm assuming the course restrictions will be the same, but have no idea what they will do with the time standards.

Wow.  So 10 guys could seal the deal this weekend at Twin Cities for 2012.  I'll be anyone capable of running close to the 2:22 cutoff just had their give-a-darn meter peg.

Interesting that they specifically change the previously stated rules to allow Boston and to eliminate the semi-loop requirement.  And there is no wind requirement.  And they allow a 3 min slower time for just one marathon.  Looks like some marathons did some hard lobbying.

As for the letsrun discussion- I like the FRB discussions more.  Nicer, less hostile.

Jon - shut up. You are stupid!! <add token racial or gender joke here> There, now we can compete with LetsRun.

Anyway, I found the softening interesting as well, but just LOVE the concept making the U.S. Marathon Championships actually important, and love the concept making PLACING in a race important. Isn't that what pure racing is all about: what you place? I hope that I can get healthy and fit enough to give Twin Cities a go the next few years.

For a guy like you, top 10 and sub-2:22 at TCM is a realistic possibility, especially since there are 3 years you can qualify.  Will the championship always be at TC?

For us slightly slower folks, the combination of requiring faster times and eliminating downhill courses is a nail in the coffin for OTQ.

Only if you keep that attitude. ;-)

Regarding championship location, it's been at TCM the last several years. But I don't know that it's guaranteed to remain there. From what I've heard, it's a good race and a good, somewhat challenging course.

I like the fact that the USATF official web page for qualifying standards has some typos on it.  (Ie'e nevr had that prblem.)

Typical. Probably because they only want to give their web people upper-$30k. You get what you pay for.

http://www.usatf.org/about/employment/WebDeveloper.asp

Any takers?

Geez, what are women, second class citizens??  Let me know if you see anything for the second half of humankind  :D

The letsrun forum bashing of Utah marathons is, as usual, entertaining.

I wonder how many folks decided to against running Twin Cities this year that are now regretting their decision given the Top 10/2:22 cutoff?
We've got a couple of bloggers running Twin Cities....anyone in 2:22 shape?  Given last year's results, that'd be enough to get into the Top 10.  Nothing like some last minute self-imposed pressure to ratchet up the intensity a notch, right?

I believe we have bloggers currently capable of 2:22 on that course. However, the field this year is loaded. However, once you get past Dan Browne, Fernado Cabada, and the Hansons team, things get easier. ;-)

2:22 will not be Top 10 this year, unless weather is bad. However, once the big guns qualify, perhaps we'll see more 2:20 types up top? Hard to say. On the other hand, TCM has a great prize payout for people who can run 2:14-2:20. Most people faster than that usually end up in "major" marathons instead.

Michelle - agreed it's not fair for men to know qualifying standards at this stage of the game, but not women. Rumor has it that it will be decided during the Dec. USATF meeting.

I would sure hope not! I think women are way better runners than me ;) Some of my thickskulled compatriots must see things differently. *throws shoe at the IOC

Kiss up!  I like it  ;)

Twin Cities we definitely be the key race the next few years.  I wonder how many runners that decided not to run Twin Cities (that are considered at an A elite level) are regretting it now.

Had I known that 2:22 would be enough this year, I would have reconsidered my decision to not run TCM. However, I agree with Paul that 2:22 won't get it done this year and probably not any year in the next three with these new changes to the OT qualifying. If you look at the entry list (http://www.usatf.org/events/2008/USAMarathonChampionship-Men/entry/status.asp) you will see quite a few folks who will finish in the top 10 and be under 2:22. My training buddy Mike Sayenko will almost certinaly be one of them as he is in great shape.

My reason for not running TCM was because I didn't feel I could OTQ. The 2:22 option isn't likely to materialize so I would have made the same decision.

BTW...TCM has been a yo-yo in terms of times. In 2002, 13th place was under 2:22. In 2003 10th was. In 2004 more than 15 broke 2:22 and the following year in 2005 only three broke that mark. In 2006 11 did and last year under the ridiculous heat, four did.

As for the rest of the final qualifying changes, I think it's great. The best change is the HUGE window. That gives everyone lots of chances to git 'er done.

1:05 is completely impossible for me in the half. There is no way I can run 4:57s for 13 miles. 2:19 is possible but will still be a major challenge.

So one small ammendment to my previous post...after reading the regs more closely, I realized that you only have to being the top 10 AMERICANS. TCM often attracts those "second-tier" africans looking for a little prize money. I still think 10 americans will beat 2:22 this year and probably beat 2:21.

Sean - agreed. Barring bad weather, I don't see anyone getting Top 10 without breaking 2:20 or so in the next couple years. But perhaps the following year we may see someone slip in.

Also...

Let's say someone trains all year with the focus on TCM. And then the day comes, and the weather stinks (hot, windy, etc.). The person is in 2:16 shape, but can "only" run 2:21 on raceday...but he finishes 5th. It is truly a great performance, given the conditions! And that performance won't be negated just because of bad weather, because he will still qualify (and rake in some cash).

Another thought: I'm pretty sure you have to run sub-2:30 just to participate in the marathon championships. So there is a qualifier, and it's achievable for many. With the excitement generated by all the prize money and ability to qualify, the U.S. Marathon champs might actually become (gasp) prestigious and interesting. Something it has not ever been.

The 2:22 provision is for a guy that peaked for TCM, ran well, deserved to run under 2:19, but the conditions were bad, so he could not quite make it. A maybe under 2:22 guy in St. George looks at that and say, well, on a lucky day I might pull this off - I need a good day and I need my competition to get stomach flu or just run some other race. But with the new incentive this won't happen. No shortcut. You still need to be a true sub-2:19 guy to be in the Trials.

I don't believe there is a qualifying time for any of the USATF National Championships. I believe you simply need as USATF number. I'll check.

Hmmm...I must be smoking crack. I think I'm just confused with getting elite status or something like that. There are no time requirements for running any U.S. Championships.

But there should be.

The challenge is that they are always (i think) run as part of a larger marathon or half marathon so how would you tell people no?

Separate start. Like how NYC Marathon starts the elites first.