Fast Running Blog

I like the 5ks and long runs (marathons and 1/2s) but I struggle in my 10ks because I am in racing mode as opposed to longer runs where I just want to finish. Is there some sort of formula somewhere for what you should run a 10k at compared to your 5k time?

Hey Sasha this is Susan by the way from your old ward. I should have taken advantage of your running knowledge a little more before you guys moved. Would it be better to post my 5k time so you can tell me specifically or should I email it (since I know you all would blow me away)?

http://www.runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=6765

Here is a generic race time predictor.  It accounts for slowing down a bit as the distances increase.  Very generic- some better ones can even have you input temperature, wind, elevation, etc.

Hi Susan,

10K's are hard (in my opinion).  For me, my 10K pace is about 15-20 secs/mile slower than my 5K pace, I have heard some people like the "rule-of-thumb" double the time + 1.5 to 2 mins.  For the fast runners the times between the two are much closer.

Good luck, welcome to the blog!

Bonnie

McMillan's Calculator (http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm) is also very good.

Jack Daniels' "Running Formula" has some great tables to help you calculate anything from a 400 to a marathon. It also teaches you a lot about training for all of these distances.

Susan - nice to hear from you.

Our predictor is actually able to convert what you should run in a generic 10 K from your generic 5 K.

http://www.asksasha.com/predictor.php

Use the custom distance. It will even try to account for your weekly mileage.

However, since the courses are so different, and some of them are not correctly measured, the actual time can vary by as much as 3 minutes either way with proper effort. Which 5 K are you trying to convert to which 10 K?

Also, you can get much more meaningful feedback on your training if you set up a blog. What I find is when somebody thinks he's been training a certain way, it is only about 60% accurate compared to having a daily record of how he actually trained. Thus, the feedback can be no more than 60% accurate. Plus, when it is online, anybody can comment at any time.

I have found predictive tables to have little basis in reality. They are decent guides for training but they don't properly predict times, at least not in my experience. I may be a unique case though. For example, I have never broken 60 seconds in the 400m. I haven't exactly spent a lot of time tryng, but when I do 400 repeats, it's clear I would have some work to do to bring my time under 60 seconds. Yes. I'm slow.

According to my Newport Marathon time, Jack Daniels says my mile time should be in the 4:15-4:20 range and my 3000 meters time should be sub 8:30. Both of those times are completely out of my range.

For me, the tables get more and more correct the longer the distance they are predicting. But that may have more to do with the fact that i am faster than I am quick...if that makes any sense.

Sean, a lot has to do with how close the race distances are.  Like you, my mile time is slow compared to marathon time.  A 15k, 10 mile, or 1/2 marathon could be used to accurately predict a marathon.  Likewise, 5k and 10k should be close.  And you could use a 5k to predict mile fairly accurately.  But using just a mile to predict a marathon is way too big of a gap, in terms of speed vs endurance training.

Wow thanks everyone this will be super helpful! I have already looked up the predictors mentioned. I am going to use my 5k time from the freedom run to try to predict the Speedy Spaniard 10K. Although I have ran both of those in the past. I am not sure how those two compare as far as race times. I got a garmin a while back and it has helped me to hold my pace which I have always struggled with. I have a running blog already but I think it is a great idea to do one that experienced runners can comment on.

Susan

Susan:

You should expect around 42-43 minutes in Speedy Spaniard if they have not significantly changed the course the last time I've run it, and if you are properly trained. I would recommend running DesNews 10 K instead, though. Speedy Spaniard is not a certified course, DesNews is. A non-certified course can be just about any length, and the race director is free to move the start and the finish, as well as alter the course and he does not have to account to anybody because he has no status to lose except the reputation among the runners, but too many runners think it is a good course when it happens to be short. If the course is certified, any change of the course requires re-certification. You should always run a certified course when it is an option.

There is another 10 K in Provo that day as well that I am fairly certain is certified but I am not 100% sure. See details at

http://run13.com/14.html

Feel free to e-mail the race director and ask. It would actually be a good idea for everybody to always ask the race director if his course is USATF certified before running it and communicating to him that you really care if it is and your participation in the race as well as whether you'll recommend it to others is contingent upon it.

Thanks Sasha that is helpful. I will see if I can reach that time.

Susan

The mindset between a 5k and a 10k is totally different so you've just got to come up with a new racing mentality. If you warm up for a couple of minutes and run some strides, then 10k pace should be easy for the first 2 miles (obviously not like a 5k).  You spend those first 10k trying to find a good pace (should be 20 seconds slower than 5k about) and then just try to maintain. Ideally, a 10k should be completely even split.

One thing I like to do is head to a track the day before the race.  I warmup as if I'm going to race then do some timed 100s or 200s with a running start and try to hit the proper pace.  You'll be surprised how far off you can be.  It's a big mental help.

I agree with a lot of what James said except for this.  I think you might feel like you are holding back for a mile, but it shouldn't feel "easy", not if you are racing it.  I think that "easy" for me only explains the first mile of a marathon, even 1/2 marathons should feel comfortable but not easy.  By mile two an even split for your 10k goal should feel about right, but not exhausting.  By mile three, it should feel challenging, and then perhaps exhausting for mile 4, then gut-wrenching for mile 5 and mile 6.  But since I have never quite succeeded at doing an even split 10k, I wouldn't know how exactly the miles should feel.  That's my guesstimate.

I'd think that it should be if you warm up for a couple miles (very slow) ... According to Daniel's running formula, something begins to happen to your body around 2 or 3 miles. It switches to the next gear and reduces the 'stress' (I use this term in a technical sense). Much akin to warming up a car on a cold day.


I don't think I've ever run an even split race Michelle and that takes races going down as short as 800 meters into consideration. But then, it doesn't sound like you have either. However, I do note that I've never felt comfortable in a 5k race, even in the first mile, but I have in a 10k.

So do you try to maintain a steady pace throughout your 10ks or do you try to increase speed with every mile. I was reading something about that and wondered if anyone did it.

Assuming flat terrain, the fastest way to run a race is to even split it- that is, run each mile the exact same. 

That being said, for longer races (i.e. marathons) it is sometimes better to start out a bit conservative and be able to pick it up a bit at the end.  But for races like 5k or 10k, they are short enough that going out just a bit faster and then "trying to hold on" as long as you can can also be good.  There is no one answer, though- some people are good at hanging on, some are good at even splits, some do better starting just a bit slow.

I have a hunch that a low mileage runner will not run his best marathon even splitting. In fact, even a high-mileage runner may find himself in the same category.