Fast Running Blog

Is it very important to have a longer run each week?  My weekly mileage goal is ~35 (for now).  Is it more beneficial to do 5 miles on 5 days and then 10 on Saturday, or can I get away with just 6 miles on 6 days a week?  I'm having a hard time balancing other things I need to get done on Saturdays with the exhaustion I've been feeling after my longer runs since it got hotter.   Plus I don't really like long runs *blush*.  I am hoping for a similar situation to speedwork (i.e. don't even worry about it until you are running more than 40 miles a week).   Keep in mind that on week days I usually break up my mileage into 2 runs.   

If you don't ever run more than 6 miles at a time you will have a harder time with the half marathon than if you get long runs.  That being said, it is very common to only do a long run every other week, rather than every week.  This is more true once you are reaching 17+ mile long runs, but can pertain to you, as well.  See if you can find time every other week to get in a longer run.  As for the heat- if you wake up early enough, it isn't so bad.  At least relatively, right?  90 degrees is still hot at 5 am, but at least the sun won't be out...

I agree with Jon I would do a longer run every other week (and for me personally I would have my longest run be at least 15 miles).  Half marathons always seem easier when I am training for a full because 13 miles is no big woop.  You are going to half to get up really early or do the longer runs on the treadmill.

Keep your long run short/slow enough that you recover from it in 2 hours. I highly doubt a long run that results in a heat exhaustion is beneficial.

You can run quite well without long runs at all if you have solid daily mileage. In fact, if your post-long run recovery opportunity is limited I would skip them altogether and do 6 miles a day 6 days a week maybe with a well planned 10 mile run once a month with good recovery afterwards (you take a nap while somebody watches the kids) as a confidence builder.

Lybi, you did a half-marathon a few months ago with little mileage training. Where did you feel the weakest during that run? Was it the pace being too fast, not being able to hold a pace for a certain amount of miles, or was it near the end because you were too tired?

Look at what you aspect you want to improve most from that April race and focus on that. If it was a lack of long runs, then you already know what you need to do. I think you already know what it is you need/want to do...but maybe need the confirmation to do it/keep doing it.

One of the benefits of a long run, besides the training stimulus, is the confidence booster. After running 13 you know you CAN RUN 13. After running 15 you know you can run 13 faster because it is shorter. In the same way, you become more consistent and better with the smaller stuff in training because it is not as long as your long run (for proof look at your training after the provo half- significantly more consistent and higher miles than the earlier part of the year--and you even destroyed your high school 5k pr).

I ran 1/2 marathons for a couple of years before diving into the marathon arena.  The two summers I did 1/2's without many long runs (I would do up to 18 miles, but many 10-12 milers).  I would hit a soft wall at the end of the half marathon.  I was training 45-60 miles a week, at least 6 a day, so I don't agree with Sasha's advice.  My times were ok, but I suffered at the end, much like the end of a marathon.  I would tell people, "A half is a marathon to me!"  So the longer runs you can do, the better the 1/2 will go for you in my opinion (I'd say up to an 18 miler).  I think heat exhaustion can happen in that kind of heat, but perhaps going earlier can help.  You may want to consider switching your long runs to midweek. Saturdays are always hard.  I would go at least 13 every week, with longer than 13 every other.  I guess my short answer would be, you might want to consider increasing your weekly mileage goals over time.

Michelle:

Describe your "soft wall". Also, have you ever run 45-60 miles a week consistently  between college and now? If yes, I'd like to see the logs. The reason I question that is that once you've 45-60 miles a week for a couple of months you've run a minor half marathon breakthrough, and after doing that for another 4 months you had a major breakthrough. It should not have happened, your PRs would have been too high to crush that badly if you had earlier trained as you described.

Somebody who runs only 30-40 miles a week will hit something in the half marathon with or without longer runs. But you can still run though not your best, but a decent half. I ran my first half off 40 miles a week and the longest run ever being 12.5 miles which I did about once a month. I went through the 10 K in 35:50 with two guys who had more mileage on them, then I fell back after that, so I definitely had issues with the distance and paid for my lack of preparation, but still I kept the 6:00 guy at bay. I imagine on that same course I would run around 1:09:30 now. So yes, optimal training will make a big difference, but when the circumstances do not allow it or the health does not permit, you can work around it and run a respectable time. It is not like if you do not do long runs your half is 30 minutes slower than what you would get off ideal training.

Doh!  You guys have me all confused.  Ordinarily I would just chuck everyone's advice except for Sasha.  But then, Michelle is such an awesome runner and is easier for me to relate to in some ways, and if there was someone I would pick to be a vice-coach (like vice president?) it would be her.  So it is weird to have opposing advice from these two.  And then Adam makes a very good point.  Adam is very effective with kicks in the rear, I find (must be his history with soccer).   

I like the idea of running on a non-Saturday.  Maybe I can do a super-long, super slow run on the treadmill on Friday night (which is video game night here and all 4 of my boys completely ignore me) just to try it out.  The thought of trying another early Sat. (I already leave at 5:15 am, guys!) just makes me want to hurl.  So I'll try it this week and if I am still worthless on Saturday...someone will have to pay!  Then I guess I will take next week and just do 6 a day.  Then the next week another long run?  So kind of a compromise.

Thanks for the input, guys!

Ok, I think your plan is a good compromise, though if it weren't so dang hot there I'd tell you to hit the roads.

Regarding Sasha's question, I am referring to 2006 when I ran Hobble Creek in 1:28:51 and I felt like my feet and legs (separately or together) were going to fall off from mile 12 on.  I think I probably slowed down 45 seconds in mile 13, and probably slowed slightly from mile 11 on, so I probably lost 1 minute - 1:30 from the "wall" itself, but I think I lost more than that by not having enough long runs, because I think the endurance will help you for the full last half of the half marathon.  In the end, training for a marathon helps your 1/2 tremendously.  But many people run 45-60 miles a week without targeting a marathon.  So as mileage goes, the more the merrier. (Sasha, I didn't log my miles back then but I remember my training vividly because there were different workouts on different days of the week--we can discuss more the next time I run with you so as to not bore Lybi on what's supposed to be her thread).

I also think Adam's advice to look at your last race to see where your weaknesses lie is great advice. 

Best of Luck Lybi.

Lybi,

I am not an expert by any means, but I can tell you that I have had two 1/2's that I have not been nearly enough prepared for.  I did okay on both until mile 10 and from then on it was a struggle and on the last one the last mile was horrible.  I ended up focusing on quarter miles to make it end.  I think that you could probably be okay doing a long run only every other week but they definitely need to be longer that 13 miles - I would say a minimum of 15.    There is a difference between running one to finish and running one to conquer.  You have to decide what is important to you.

Oops!  I changed my mind.  I am going to volunteer myself as a guinea pig to see if daily runs only can produce a good half marathon PR.  I have no doubt that even with long runs I would still be exceedingly tired at the end of a half.  I only have like a month or two more to prepare.  I really will try to get my weekly mileage a little more respectable, though.

PS This is all Sasha's fault.

I am betting you wrote that in jest, but if not, I have to say you and you alone are responsible for the advice you take (especially when you are given two differing opinions)   :-\

How do you explain what happened with me last year?  Maybe this backs up what Sasha is saying.  I dislike long runs also, so I decided to just run half marathons to prepare for the St. George marathon.  I ran nothing longer than the half marathon distance, ran a lot on the other days, maybe an average of 6 to 8 miles most days, though some days I only ran 3 or 4 miles. Some days, but very few, I didn't run at all.  I ran a half marathon 5 times during the months of July, August and September, and a couple of 5Ks also during those months.  I then set a marathon PR at St. George of 3:35 at the age of 50; my previous PR was two years earlier, a 3:37, and my previous before that had been 3:39 in 1998 when I ran a lot of long runs.   So I was able to set a marathon PR on no real what are traditionally considered long runs (I consider long runs in marathon training 15 miles or longer.)  Maybe I would have done better if I had put in the longer runs, but I tell you I really enjoyed that year of training without having to worry about a long run every Saturday.

Cheryl-hmmm, I don't know how to explain your experience.  I'm just giving Lybi my advice from mine.  If she doesn't feel like enduring the last several miles is the hardest part of the race, then I am sure she doesn't need more long run training.  I definitely felt like I did.

I have to agree with Michelle. I don't think that super long runs are needed for the half, but building up to 12 miles is essential. My own experience supports it - when I first got into long distance running, in '97-'98, I ran very low weekly mileage, around 25 miles, but I did 10-12 mile run every weekend. I raced my first half marathon in hilly Central Park in NY in steamy condiitons in August, and I finished in 1:46 without too much hurting at the end. I only ran 4 times a week then, but one of them was a long run. Perhaps I would have been in comparable shape if I ran higher mileage but no long runs, but I didn't do that and so cannot compare. I believe long run is essential for distances longer than 10K. Lybi will be an interesting experiment if she follows Sasha's suggestion.

A hard half + some warm-up and cooldown will do more for your marathon conditioning than a 20 mile jog. There is even some science behind it. When you jog, you burn fats. When you run hard you burn carbs. When you run hard for a long time, you deplete the muscle glycogen, which encourages the body to store more of it in the future.  When you bonk in the marathon, it is never because you are out of fat (even if you have less than 5% of it on your body), it is because you are out of glycogen. The more muscle glycogen you've got, the  longer you can go at a good pace.

Also, who is to say that a long run or a hard carbo-depleting tempo ideally needs to happen exactly once a week for everybody? Why not once every two or even three weeks for an older runner with a busy schedule? And if she tries it more often, she will probably overtrain.

There are definate benifits to running 6 days a week and I think it can carry you through a half marathon just fine.  But I also see the value in the long run.  It gives you peace of mind that you have gone that far in past 3 months.  It also builds endurance, you can pracitce your desired pace on tired legs which I think is benifical.   And I do think if you are looking to better your times you need some long runs.  Anyone can finish a half, it just depends on if you are running it to walk or running it to get a PR. 
I don't think you need a whole lot of long runs but at least 2-3 through you training, unless you are wanting  a time in the 1:20-1:30's.

Michelle--When I said "this is all Sasha's fault" I was of course joking.  The truth is that I was just still very middle of the road on my decision and he left a long comment on my Tues. (June 10th) blog that helped tip me over to the other side again.  Here is my reasoning... 

One of the biggest obstacles I've had since starting to run is getting my weekly mileage over 30-35.  For some reason, every time I have tried to go higher than that (and I know it is not that high) I have gotten injured, or suffered a "lapse" in motivation which I think is related to feeling tired all the time.  I am sure that long runs are beneficial.  The ideal training regimen in general would be high weekly miles AND some long runs AND speedwork.  But which is the most critical to increase first?  I am voting on weekly mileage.  I REALLY REALLY want to be able to get up to at least 40 miles a week.   But I need to be sneaky to get there.  I really have to try to minimize the stress on my body as I can to avoid pushing myself past the injury point (and also the "Why do I do this--I hate running" point).  Then when I am there (comfortable with, say, 42-45 miles a week) I can hopefully add a regular long run, and then eventually some speedwork.   Anyway, that is my plan--for now.  Let's see if it works better than what I've been trying.

I think you have a perfect plan to get you to your end goal.  I have allways believed in building slowly to aviod injury.  And I still think if you run 6 a day you will be able to finish a half just fine and even pr.  You better or you will make Sasha look bad ;)