Fast Running Blog

I was on my run tonight and nearly got hit twice by two different cars.  I had the right of way both times but they were either looking down or being plain rude and not wanting to wait for me.  One car honked at me and it really ticked me off.  I almost let them know that they were "number 1" in my book but I decided to be the better person and not do it.  I have seen some people slap the side of cars to let the car know their are runners nearby.  What do you do and is their any proper etiquette to doing this?

Ignore them. They will not learn. And next time it will be a different car anyway.

If a car is waiting to turn, I will almost always run behind it, unless I make direct eye contact with the driver and get a "wave" of acknowledgment. "Defensive running" and avoiding potential incidents completely is usually the way to go. Part of that is assuming that every driver is completely incompetent, and not only that, but no one is paying attention but you. These assumptions are not always true, but still good assumptions to make for safety sake.

I've slapped a few cars in my day, but it tends not to lead to anything constructive. Doing something aggressive like that only leads to further frustration and anger for all parties involves. Best to get forget, forgive, and move on...cautiously.

Same for me..."Defensive Running".  At every intersection I treat them like the enemy.  And I too must admit to a few fender slaps just to let them know how close it really was. 

At least here in Provo, everytime I use a cross walk I'm looking in ALL directions before I try to cross. I live right off an intersection and nearly get hit almost EVERYTIME I go out for a run. I've ignored their honking rants, did the fender slap a few times, given the eye, and on very close calls I usually say a little something or point to street signs- usually pointing out what they did wrong. I used to point it out a bit differently when I was younger, but like Paul said, a better person wouldn't and shouldn't do that.

The worst by far out here in college town is girls who are driving for the first time, and even worse, the girls who text while they drive. And then the guys who drive their super-hondas or bikes. I've learned to just accept that most people aren't watching for runners out here. When I do get a driver who stops for me, or is polite, I usually give them a wave, thumbs up, and say thanks.

I have had my share of frustrations as well with cars that totally ignored me.  I have to agree with the others, no matter what, every time I get angry and point, shout or do anything else, it doesn't help at all.  I also end up practicing "defensive running".  It kind of reminds me what other people who drive motorcycles have told me - always be on the lookout, always assume the other vehicle does not see you, be prepared to yield even when you have the right of way.

Have to let it go. In small town IL (Galesburg where I went to college) I've had things thrown at me. I was even once hit by a bag of fries and it cut me. I actually bled. I've had friends that have had glass bottles thrown at them as well. Two of the worst cases were in St. Louis. I had a kid in the back seat of a car yelling at me and the dad was egging the kid on. Also while there I ran with a fairly large group and a couple of the guys had tempers. Once one of the guys spit on a car that wouldn't move over. The guy must have seen it in his mirror. He slammed on his breaks pulled back and dared him to do it again saying he was going to shoot him if he did. After that incident I've learned that you can't change some people and some people you don't want to try to change. I've been relatively happy running here though. Of the three cities I've lived in, SLC is the smallest, but I've also had less comments yelled at me in 18-months than in any given one month in the other cities... Good luck and keep your cool...

I will say that although drivers in Logan are terrible, very very few are hostile. Haven't had anything thrown at me yet (I can't say the same for Indiana). Gotta love northern Utah for that.

I agree you just have to watch, people do not see runners or bikers or anything else for that matter.  Everyone is in to big of a hurry. 
I once hit the side of a car.  The man was on his phone and computer at the same time while driving and eating his breakfast.  He nearly ran into me and a friend.  He was so mad, he got out of his care and wanted my info, after I wouldn't give it to him and told him he almost hit us he got even more mad and wanted to fight me.  Never the less I will never do that again.  People.

One time this past XC season a car pulled out into the group and almost took out some of our team. The lady driving the car got mad and got out of her car to yell. Being a bunch of high school kids everyone let her know how we felt. Happens all of the time but you have to do your best to watch out and be safe.

The already mentioned suggestions are excellent.  I have to agree with an already mentioned tactic ... eye contact.  I think this is the key to running defensively.  When coming to intersections, I always try to gain eye contact with drivers.  I've found that by doing this ... oftentimes it will become clear whether the driver is going to yield to you or if he/she is operating under the "I'm bigger than you; out of my way" concept.  Once I get eye contact and think the driver is yielding to me, I'll ususally raise my hand.  I intend this to be a half-wave - thanking them for yielding; half-stop sign - signalling them to stop because I'm passing in front.  If they don't acknowledge or give a positive vibe, I just go behind or ... the dreaded wait if necessary.

When running in a group, we usually have someone go ahead at the bigger intersections.  The purpose is to run reconnaissance for the group and call out any hazards and from which direction.  Also when running in a group, the leader calls out "car up" and the trailer calls out "car back" whenever there's imminent traffic.  This gives the group a raised general awareness.

The challenge for me is when running alone and I come to a busy and/or complicated intersection.  I usually say to myself, "Oh great, I can get hit from 5 different directions!"  This effectively raises my antennae to the possibility of increased danger.  I use the same analogy with my 15-year old son who just started driving.  (He doesn't seem to fully appreciate my analogies though ....)

I can't believe so many of you have slapped cars!  You renegades...

Defensive running is a must, obviously.  I run behind the first cars at stop signs, etc.  But when someone does stop specificially for me, I always give them a big "thank you" wave.

I don't slap cars often.  I did once when a pickup with a trailer made a right hand turn right in front of me and a guy on a bike- the trailer ran us off the road.  I was pretty ticked, actually chasing the truck, banging on the trailer.  I wasn't worried about myself, but the bike guy could easily have been tipped and run over by the trailer wheels.

I agree, defensive running is required as I too have nearly been hit by inattentive drivers several times in the recent past.  Just this morning I came upon two intersections with cars coming to a stop and I did the run behind technique just to be sure.   I agree with Jon on acknoweldging the driver with a wave when they do see you. 

Also, running facing traffic is a must...never trust the cars will see you.

That last point is key!!! Bike with traffic, run against traffic. I never trust cars coming up from behind. I've also noticed you get less comments yelled at you when you are facing the driver than when they come from behind. The nice thing about running is that we are never going to fast that we can't jump over the curb if the care isn't moving over.

I live in the sticks, so the situation is a bit different, but when I started running again, most of my neighbors would fly up my 25MPH road at no less than 45 and paid no regard to "non-automotive" users. The first few weeks were pretty harrowing, but I adopted a "wave at everyone" approach, thinking that they'd feel bad about running down someone they knew versus a total stranger.  It worked.....aside from a couple of teenagers with freshly minted licenses, almost all drivers now give me a wide berth and slow to sub-light speeds when passing me.  Now, I only need look out for the logging trucks that occasionally lumber up and down the road.
I do travel for business at times to busier metro areas and their my strategy includes running neighborhood/back roads as much as possible, but I still give the wave.  Sticking to neighborhood roads especially raises the odds that I'll encounter the same drivers over the week or two I'm there, and some do actually associate the wave with "friendly runner" and slow down accordingly.  I never cross in front of a car unless I've managed eye-contact with the driver (legacy of being hit by a car as a child) at an intersection, and generally make a quick 'judgement' as to the person's character before I risk crossing in front....if questionable, yield to run another day.

What I do is pack a sidearm in plain site.......I wish.  Usually they get the evil eye from me, perhaps a car slap if they're really close.  sometimes if they're not looking at all, I'll yell really lous when I'm next to their car.  That usually gets their attention.  No one has thrown anything at me (yet).  I also tend to look way ahead and plan what I'm goping to do if some car looks like it might be a problem, maybe I'll slow down or speed up.

Lots of really good ideas and suggestions I have heard before.  I usually run behind the cars when they pull towards the intersection but I didn't do it yesterday.  Some drivers are rude but everyone is entitled to their opinion I guess.

I've slapped a car once.  It was during a 15k that use to be part of the NUTS series (now the Striders series).  Anyway there two groups of runners about fifteen yards apart crossing an intersection.  Some idiot who looked like he was just leaving the party from the night before and had been drinking all night decided to dart his vehicle between the two groups.  He almost hit me and a female runner.  I slapped the side of his car pretty hard.  He turned the car around around and drove along the side of us for the next half mile screaming "who hit my car?"  I don't know whether anyone had seen me do it, but no one said anything and we kept running and ignored him.  He finally drove off.  I got a good laugh at that one and it actually made the run more enjoyable. 

I actually hit the side of a pickup this week on my tempo run because the driver turned right in front of me that I had to put my hands against the truck's bed to stop myself from slamming into it.  I've almost been hit some many times that I've learned several techniques to avoid disaster.  1.  Run behind the car if their pulling out a side street.  2.  Try to make eye contact and wave my hands. 3.  Try to run where there's no turning streets (which is very hard). 4.  Wear as much reflective apparel as possible.

I have never slapped a car, but my husband has.  One time, my husband and I were running together on a dirt path next to a canal.  Some middle-school-aged boys were on bikes, and one was coming straight at us.  We both YELLED at him to get out of the way.  He looked kind of sheepish and said, "I was trying to ride in between you."  We were less than 2 feet apart!  I yelled again and told him he couldn't ride close to people like that.

I also got knocked down by a someone on a bicycle when I was walking across campus in college (on my birthday!).  Obviously, cars are much more dangerous, but you gotta watch out for bikers too!

Some of my favorite car encounters:  Jeffrey mentioned one, this year during cross-country (although I really didn't like getting the phone call involved); one time in college I jumped over the hood of a car that was encroaching on an intersection (probably shouldn't try that one anymore); and although I usually feel like yelling back, a simple smile and wave usually confuses the driver more and leaves me feeling less violent and able to continue enjoying my run (to the tenth of the mile!).

Dave- not to the hundredth of a mile?   ;)

YES!  To the thousandth if I could!  In my Nikes!  I just used a lot of exclamations!

And Jon I didn't mean to come across as taking it personally - to me it just seemed that a couple of post had taken more of a critical tone than I had ever seen on here before.  In fact, I think the mileage board has the potential to be the most negative thing on this blog - if it was used to try to keep up with Sasha, Clyde, Logan, or any other of these mileage hogs (which I guess I have to throw myself into sometimes) instead of just another cool way to look at what yourself and others are doing.

Dave,

Sorry for sounding so negative, you "mileage hog" you!  I do and will give people a hard time about their mileage recording because it is so funny and extreme, and it is my nature to tease.  For those who know me, they will know it is all in fun, for those who choose to be offended, maybe they really do have a problem, I don't really care.  Besides, if anything is that addicting we have taken it way too far and need to step back and re-evaluate why we run, and have a little more fun. 

I will not mention any of my car encounters as not to offend the more sensitive bloggers, but I do have some goodies!

Dave- yeah, we weren't trying to be critical.  I think the whole thing is funny.  Everyone is anal about some aspect of their lives, some in mileage, some in clothes, some in food, some in hairdo, etc.

It's best James not mention his car encounters, since some of them probably involve him mooning the car in anger as it drove away.

No Jon, No mooning, but very good stories!

I am acctually sad to say that I have NEVER had the opportunity to slap a car yet.  Of course one reason could be that I have only been running for 11 months now.  Also, the fact that I am 6'6'' and 250 pounds makes me quite a bit more visible than most of you!!!

You'll get your chance if you keep running.  Don't worry.

This comes up both on a bicycle and while running.  It's very out of character for me to blow up like that, but I have on several occasions, once or twice with my training partner there. I always felt very embarrassed about it. Part of it I think is the increased blood levels of adrenaline/testosterone associated with physical exercise, priming us to respond in aggressive ways we might not while at rest.

As for the underlying frustration, a lot of it is probably about primate social behavior, a.k.a. hierarchy: who owns the roadways? The fact that rude/dangerous drivers are disproportionately SUVs may have something to do with their poor sightlines, but many SUV owners also feel entitled in a way that gets my goat both politically and on a practical level. Eventually I've come to the conclusion that (a) reacting doesn't make me feel any better, and actually winds up making me more frustrated (b) that the discipline of NOT reacting is good for me; (c) that my willingness to get enraged by incompetent/inconsiderate drivers was destroying the peace and satisfaction I got from running; (d) that relations between bicyclists/runners and cars are troubled enough, and each time I react with hostility, I increase it just that much; and (e) that given my vulnerability on the roadway and the fact that some people are freaking nuts, aggressiveness can be quite dangerous.

So now I imagine myself as an ambassador in a foreign country with very strange mores, and somehow it's much less annoying when drivers behave bizarrely. I'm ready for it, and they're not really in my baboon troop, so it's not such a big deal when they pull rank.

I've enjoyed reading some of these different posts.  I usually try to run behind the cars at intersections, especially if they are not paying attention.  I guess in all my years running, I've probably hit a car or two and probably said a word or two I shouldn't have to drivers.  It is interesting now that I am teaching drivers education, I try to make sure my students understand how to watch out for runners!

Ok, I have to admit to some not so cool reactions as well. In fact in Singapore I used to slap the side of cars fairly frequently bcause it was so bad. In once case I actually jumped on the hood of a car and ran across it to the other side (it was a very small car). Not the best way to make friends and influence people. I do have to say that Utah has actually been very good compared to most other places I have lived. In the South (especially Alabama) it was not uncommon to get rude statements shouted and have cars swerve at you on a frequent basis. The two worst cases I remember were a truck swerving off the road and then opening it's door in an attempt to hit me as it went by and on one occasion a guy letting his dog loose and encouraging him to chase me down. He just thought that was hilarious. When I know it is out of ignorance or just not paying much attention it really does not bother me. It is when it happens and it is intentional that it is hard to ignore. However, I have calmed down a bit the last several years and cannot recal my last bad encounter.

I forgot to mention I am good for a couple of "Run Forrest, Run" comments from someone hanging out a car window every month.  Too bad I do not have the speed and endurance he had.

Well, I'm happy to say that of late, almost all the drivers I've encountered have been really courteous. It's just those few idiots who ruin all the good drivers' reputation. Just looking at the bright side of life or something....

On both my run today and the one last Monday, I acctually had someone see me coming up to an intersection and BACK UP to let me go in front of them.  I run in St George, and have had very few close calls so far.  One of my worst though, was running the marthon route while training.  Nothing has scared me as much as someone coming a little to close while going 60+ MPH!

I have had similar experiences with cars actually backing up, and every time I do, I am infused with relief to know that there are still courteous drivers on the road.

It actually kind of throws me off if a car backs up or stops so that I can cross. It's freaky.

While I was running yesterday, I ran behind a truck that was waiting to turn and he decided to back up just as I was running by. 

I take out my loaded 45 and and gently aim and squeeze the trigger.    No one  runs over  the wildbull.  There is blood on every street in saint george.  Men grown,woman scream, children cry when they pass the wildbull!   

And to think that I just read yesterday that Logan and St. George were both on the top 10 list nationwide of best and safest cities.   Looks like wildbull just ruined that one by himself.

Jon, the bull has ruined many a good city!

Food for thought. I did a little survey today during my run. I was running up Sunnyside near the Zoo (a four lane road with hardly any traffic). 19 cars total passed me. In all cases they were driving in the right lane though the left lane was empty. I waved to all cars about 20ft out. Here’s the breakdown of the experiment.

10 of the cars were driven by men, 7 of these moved over. One of the cars that did not move over was driven by a man that must have been over 80, had his handicap sticker, and I’m pretty sure did not even see me at all (a little scary). Only one of these guys was on the phone and he moved over. 4 of the seven men that moved over waved back.

9 of the cars were driven by women, only 2 of these moved over. 7 of the women were talking on the phone and none of the women waved back.