Fast Running Blog

Pretty new runner here, and I use the treadmill during the week and run outdoors on the weekend.  Contrary to the research I've done that says the treadmill should be easier, I'm wiped out after treadmill runs of the same speed as longer outdoor runs.  The outdoor runs have even been windy and incorporate hills but so far I've felt like I could keep going and they've been relatively easy compared to the TM.  The only thing I can think of is that outside lately it's been at perfect running tempetratures for me (45-55F) while it's obviously hotter inside.  Any runners see the same kind of thing, or know why that is?

Joe

Your treadmill might be calibrated wrong (meaning you're running faster than you think).

The boredom factor can take its toll mentally. You may perceive it as harder just because it's mentally taxing.

Yes, the heat can be a factor as well. I know that my heart rate is higher when I run on the treadmill at the gym, than when I run outside. The lack of cooling can elevate heart rate, cause dehydration, and accelerate fatigue.

But in general, I still find treadmill much easier than running on the roads. Most of this is due to lack of wind resistance. I can usually make up for this by setting the incline to 0.5% or 1%.

Treadmill running is harder and less enjoyable for me, mainly due to the lack of being outdoors (aka boredom).  Not sure all the other technical reasons, but it is definitely harder.

Treadmill running is harder for me as well.  The same pace on the treadmill as outside seems to take a lot more effort, and I definitely sweat a lot more so I'm sure indoor temps are a factor.  I've also noticed that it feels like I am running differently.

I run on the treadmill 3 -4 days a week when I am working, since I don't feel safe running outside in the dark.  I find that I actually run faster at the gym than I do outside unless I am aiming for a specific goal, therefore my indoor runs can feel harder.  I keep myself occupied by watching tv, usually Sportscenter since it is 5:00am, then the news and this keeps my mind off the time for the most part. 

I have been told as well by a former running coach who was at the Olympic Trials years ago to have the incline at 1% to simulate running outside.

You sweat much more and I believe that can bring a fatigue factor.  Also, boredom  will cause negative mindset and make you tired.  I fine that I'm tired on the treadmill more as well.

Thanks for the replies.  I think it probably is a combination of heat, boredom and the unnaturalness of running on it.  Glad to know I'm not the only one.  I'm going to try to get out more...

As Paul mentioned, this could be mental. I do not run on a treadmill often. The last few times were for a scientific test. I remember being scared to death to crank up the machine to 9 mph. I had to tell myself, come on, this is only 6:40, it is a jog for you. Once I was over that barrier I was able to run at faster speeds and it felt normal. But if you turned off the numeric readings and had me adjust it by feel it probably would not have gone any faster than 8 mph.

I find that the monotony of not getting anywhere, the lack of air movement and the concentration required to keep yourself centered on the tread tires me out mentally and thus leads to a more difficult time finding the run enjoyable.  If it isn't fun in some sense, it will seem harder.  That said, the TM is a good way to train for light feet and a fast turnover during the winter months...if you can keep up with the tread, you can run as fast as you like!

I'll actually echo Jeff. If you can handle it the TM is great for helping the feet to roll smooth and for helping keep hips and everything else square. I just can't seem to do it much. It seems no matter how bad the weather is outside I still choose to go there instead of getting on the TM. Like Sasha said if the numbers were not there and I just ran by feel I'd only do like 8:20 pace.

I have to say the TM is easier. I agree with the reasons against treadmill running listed above. However, the few times a month (if even that) that I run on the treadmill I tend to go faster and it feels easier. I'll put a movie on the TV, put on the head phones for the sound and put it to a speed. Part of why I think it is easier is that you don't have to focus on pace. They always say that leading in a race is harder because of the pacing factor. The treadmill takes this away. I was not able to do 2 mi repeats at 11 min until I first did it on the treadmill. Same with 5 min miles. For me the barrier on the track was much more intimidating than the fear of falling off the treadmill. That being said, the easiest running of all is outside down a canyon  ;D

I'd have to say "speedwork" is easier on a TM for me, echoing the comment before mine (Adam's).  However, anything over 5-6 miles is almost torchure!

I run on the treadmill almost every day in the winter and sometimes the rest of the year. I guess I don't have as much of a desire to be outside as others, especially when it's winter. I've found that my pace for tempo runs is faster on the treadmill than outside.

I try to do a weekly hill run on the treadmill. I set it to a pretty fast pace and then have it vary the hills. I'm sure some of it is mental, but I don't think I would get as good a workout if I tried to run the same workout outside because it forces me to keep a good pace and doesn't require me to stop for traffic.

We have a small gym in our townhome complex, so that makes the treadmills much more accessible. Not sure if I would go to a regular gym.

As far as boredom...it doesn't happen to me when I can control the TV. There are just those rare occasions when the guy next to me wants to watch reruns of shows about UFO sightings. ::)

For me the TM isn't that bad.  I don't enjoy it anywhere close to running outside, but if it's running outside in 15 degree weather with ice and snow, I'll usually choose the TM.  Around here, there's a "law" to shovel the sidewalks in front of your house, but it's not enforced.  Typically, I'll run in the street facing traffic since it's plowed and salted.  Less chance of slipping, better chance of getting hit  :P.  You don't get that element of danger on a TM!

The benefit of the TM for me is that I can set it at a certain pace and go a certain distance at that pace - training my mind and body to running that consistent pace.  When I run outside on the roads, unless I know where my mile splits are, I have a hard time knowing how fast I really am running and am not sure if I'm keeping to a certain pace for that run or not.  On the track (which they don't plow when it snows  >:( ) I've totally experienced the pacing factor, where it's tougher to keep a faster pace.  But, on the track, I can take my lap splits, or even 200m splits, to know how I'm doing and either maintain or kick it up a little if needed.

At work, we have an excellent gym with 10-12 really nice TMs (along with all the other goodies), so it's convenient for me if the weather is bad.  Sometimes it's either TM, running at 11pm, or no run that day.  Since the TMs are all the same, it's nice to be able to hop on one, pick the 5k or 10k preprogrammed race and try to beat my PB for that program.  Sure, it's boring, but that's what iPods are for.  We have TVs, but they're always tuned in to something gay, so I don't watch them.  If I'm not doing a program, I find it annoying to try and adjust the incline to simulate hills.  I'll either warm up at 1% incline then run a while at a certain higher incline (2-5%), then decrease to the 1-2% for the cool down.  If I'm just running for the miles, I will set it at 1.5% usually to try and simulate outside and the fact that the belt is doing some of the work for me (my impression).

I agree that it is largely a mental barrier.  For example, I have never run faster than 7.7 mph on a TM, and only for a half mile or mile at most, even though I have run faster, nearly 8.2 mph, for an entire 10k.  Why?  I am absolutely terrified to run on a TM at that speed.   

Antonio Vega won the Houston Half Marathon last Sunday in 1:01:54. Also, the previous weekend he ran a PR in an indoor 3000 meter race in 8:07. What was really impressive to me was that leading up to it, he did almost all of his training on a treadmill. According to one post I read, "Antonio Vegas used the rhythm that he practiced on the treadmills, to developing his confidence and leg speed." http://www.runblogrun.com/2010/01/aramco_houston_half_marathon_i.html

So at least for Vega, treadmill running appears to have had some distinct benefits (rhythm, leg speed).

Those are two areas I'm hoping to have improved on after running mostly inside this winter.

When a runner has talent, is already in good shape, and is training diligently, just about anything he does will at least appear to give him benefit.

Yes, there are lots of tactics that can supposedly make a significant difference in your running performance but don't really. Statisticians call these confounding factors, and it is hard to separate them from factors that make a real difference because it is difficult logistically to control one thing at a time and see what its individual effect is. Or to test it on enough runners to see if the variation is simply due to chance.

So I'm not claiming that this one example (though Team USA Minnesota teammates who also trained on the treadmill did quite well in this race) suggests that it is a principle that all runners should follow. But I do have my doubts that he would have run quite as well in a January race if he were trudging through ice and snow. I think he would have had a hard time getting the turnover he wanted to have in his training on a consistent basis.

Historically statisticians have not had a whole lot of success with runners. For a good reason. To explain, I will use a joke:

A physicist, a mathematician, and a statistician are traveling on a train and enter a new country. They get a rear view of two white sheep. Statistician: "All sheep in this country are white!" Physicist: "No, we can only conclude that just those two are white!" Mathematician: "No, we can only conclude that at least those two are at least partially white!"

Another joke. How a physicist proves that all odd numbers greater than 2 are prime: "3, true; 5, true; 7, true; 9, oops, error of the experiment; 11, true; 13, true; 15, another experimental error; 17, true, 19 true....".

So statistics works when there is enough similarity among the members of the class. The problem with runners is that they are different enough to where the common denominator is the obvious and the generalized: run consistently, maintain a good mileage base, run fast sometimes, eat a balanced diet, get enough sleep.  An uncomfortable thought for somebody in a Western educated culture is that a good coach achieves results by feel more than by science, in fact a whole lot more. Perhaps that explains in part why the Americans and Europeans get destroyed by the Asians and Africans. They put more weight on doing things by feel and thus know better how to train by feel.

Additionally, the irony of the Western way of doing things by science is that while we claim fierce loyalty to the scientific principles, we are not that good at applying them. We are perfectly happy to run with a Garmin telling us its guesses at how far we've run, and with a Polar or Suuntu "coach" that guesses our max HR from our age and tells us in its finite wisdom if we spend enough time in the magic HR zones. You do not see a whole lot of devices that would report even such basic things as stride rate, air time, and ground contact time. Why? Because our "scientific" public would have no clue what to do with this type of data. Our scientific pursuits end at reading popular summaries of somebody else's research in hopes that some smart scientist discovered a way we could double our endurance by training only three days a week while enjoying plenty of junk food.

Though it would be nice, statistical analyses rarely produce definitive results. Or in other words, it's typically not about drawing black-and-white conclusions. However, science has revealed many strong statistical relationships that can help us come closer to truth on a variety of topics (including running/training strategy). We don't have to merely depend on general concepts to guide our decisions. On the other hand, we need to use our intuition (go by feel) in many, many things (including our running strategy), because we are individuals and because the science only goes so far. We need both science and intuition.

Scientists need humility in acknowledging the limits of their studies. And intuitionists need humility in accepting that data analysis can provide valuable information beyond what our own brains can infer. As an analogy, I will use medicine. If I found out I had a brain tumor, I would hope to find a doctor who considers both the latest science (including statistical inferences that had been made about the best treatments for my particular subtype of brain cancer) and his/her own intuition. Good physicians attempt to balance "art" and "science" just as athletes should.

Most of us perform informal science experiments with our training as we see what works for us and for others.

Just because people misinterpret science or fail to apply it properly, doesn't make it bad. The same could be said for religion.

Turning in the opposite direction from the last 2 posts, I have a very untested theory about treadmills that my intuition leads me towards. I'll give you my supposed rationale. I suspect that treadmill work is more difficult on the aerobic system at a given pace and that the same pace outside is easier. This may not so much be the case for less developed runners. If we consider the functionality of the treadmill, an economical runner loses his running economy and form benefits on the treadmill. A treadmill rotates the road under your feet and one merely needs to put their foot down and allow the treadmill to do a significant portion of the work. This, of course is not completely true, but enough so that things change on the treadmill (setting the incline to 1.5% brings some of it back). When a foot is planted outside the muscles are used to propel the runner forward. An efficient runner produces more for less in this regard. If you take an inefficient runner and an efficient runner, both in identical aerobic, muscular, neural, etc shape the inefficient runner will be working harder to maintain the same pace as the efficient runner. The form and economy of an efficient runnner produce more for less. When you step on the treadmill some of those efficiency benefits are lost because the treadmill does the pulling, instead of the runner doing the pushing. Certainly your muscles must work to coincide with the pull, but on the road an efficient runner produces more with each 'push' as it were. When those push-efficiency-benefits are lost, the aerobic system is put under greater stress to maintain the same pace to compensate. The short of this long is that you get more for less on the road and less for more on the treadmill. This doesn't mean you don't get anything out of a treadmill workout, just that the same effort on the road produces a faster pace.

I did not examine the links above so I hope I'm not duplicating something listed in them.

That makes sense to me.  I don't know much about running efficiency, but if seems like if someone gets their power/speed from a good push off then it certainly would be negated by the tread running at its own speed.  And maybe some people that get their speed from having a quicker turnover feel like it's easier?  That's why there's a wide range of answers about which is easier because it depends on your efficiency, stride, style, etc.  Thanks for that input.

From what I've observed it is possible to run on a treadmill with a special technique that helps on the treadmill but does not help on the road. Running too much on a treadmill may teach you that technique.

I did 60% of my winter running last year on the TM and then did Boston in 3:13 (my pr is 3:09).  "Riverton Paul" did probably 75%+ in preparation for the St. George and shattered 3 hours. 

I bet Ryan Hall would shatter 2:15 training solely on treadmill!

Further reading @

http://www.runnersworld.com/community/forums/shoes-stuff/treadmills/setting-treadmill-equal-outdoor-running-percentage-incline/.0

...for anyone interested.  Basically a lot of arguing and theory and an apparent phD involved.  But I still believe it depends on the individual.  No science is precise when the human body and brain is involved.

Proof!  If you want to remember things better, run 12 mi on a wheel every day!   ;D

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8467811.stm