Print Page - Bandits

I was running a 10-K this past weekend. There were policemen on the road for part of it. I saw one of them point to a runner, while he was running, and ask him if he had a number. The runner said, "no," and the policemen told him he couldn't run on the race course (road), that he had to go over on the sidewalk. That really surprised me. I had never seen this be enforced. The city was putting on the race (I think), so that's probably how they got the police to do that. I'm sure at most races it's not enforced.

I have to admit that a couple of times previously, I had run this same race as a bandit. I was glad I hadn't this time.

As far as whether it's the right thing to do or not...I'd say definitely not if you're using racing amenities (port-a-potties, water stops, etc.). Otherwise...hmmm...probably still not the right thing to do because the race organizers put all that effort into organizing it and setting up the venue...yes, it usually is on a public road, but it still seems a little shady. Like I said, I've done it in the past. But now I'd say it's best to err on the side of the gray area where you don't have to worry (i.e. not being a bandit).

I have bandited more races than I can count (I bandited a race this weekend), but I make sure that the impact of my "bandit tendencies" makes the least amount of impact possible. I typically don't bandit if I can sign up the day of registration without a huge penalty, but I bandit races that are closed to registration all the time. I think it is ridiculous to have to pay six months in advance to run a race not knowing if you can be there or even in good running shape or what will be going on your life six months from now. However, regardless of my reasons, I believe that banditing should be done with certain amount of "grace." I think that all bandits should pretty much abide by the following rules:

1. Don't go through the chute at the end because it screws things up for the race director. I typically will run off the course a ways before the finish and finish up elsewhere so as to not intrude or screw up the finishing order. I've gone through the chute a couple of time and quickly ducted under the tape in order to avoid discovery but this should be avoided as much as possible.

2. Don't eat the food or drink the beverages (I might vary from this a little bit if I am running a marathon, which I have bandited a couple.)

3. Try to be like a ghost and as inconspicuous as possible, chances are nobody will even know you were there.

Following these rules I have never had a problem banditing races. I've never had anybody say anything to me ever. I have even camped out on a few race courses near the starting line so I would be there bright and early! :)

Benjamin "El Santo de los bandidos"

If we want to "participate" in a cause/sport/activity that we believe in, we need to give as well as take.

That means volunteering with someone else's event, perhaps (or hosting your own), teaching lessons/coaching kids, whatever it may be. At the very least it means when participating in someone else's event, you care enough to buy the T-shirt, pay the cover charge, etc.

I used to be an amateur dance competitor ... nightclubs/bars would host events, bring in bands or DJs, have dedicated nights of the week for specific dance music, competitions, etc. But the dancers themselves would take advantage of the nice venue, not buy drinks or food, not tip the staff, and basically "sponge" off the work of others while they enjoyed the venue. Then one by one the nightclubs/bars stopped hosting the events and we no longer had a variety of places to dance. The whole scene died.

I see a lot more of this behavior with young people who are (like I was!) broke or just have much lower incomes than working professionals/adults. I used to get angry that every event I went to had a $10 cover charge when I had a hard time scraping up $10 to put gas in my car to last until the next payday... so I can relate. I used to get around this by giving dance lessons (paying with my labor, basically) or volunteering my time in other ways. In other words, I was contributing to building the scene, spending time instead of money (at some points in our lives, we have an abundance of one or the other, which we can put to use).

Being a "sponger" is not something to aspire to. "Bandit" is a trying-too-hard-to-be-cool name for what people know deep down is an unethical activity ... just sneaking into the movies or through the back door without paying. In the plainest terms, it is selfish.

I fail to see how it is unethical for me to bandit a race if it is closed to registration (they won't take my money) and all I do is run the course and not even go through the chute at the end? I have no problem paying for races if I'm allowed to pay. I used to bandit in college when I had no money and I can see why that could be considered unethical (I'm older and more conservative now haha.)

The only reason why I bandit now is if I'm not allowed to run the race because of closed registration.

You should plan your races with time. Not wait for the race day to register.

The people organizing a race normally have to pay for the right to do the race, for the people who work during the race, the policemen that close of street, for the water, etc.

If the registration is closed, than look for another. The reason to close a registration is because the limit of runner has been reached, and adding more would put the runners in risk.

Thats the problem with bandits, they don't "see" the ethical side of things.

There was a trail race in Wash DC that was cancelled the day of the race this year because the Forest Service determined there were too many runners, that there were more runners than permitted. As a result, everyone who legitimately paid to run didn't get to, thanks to a few bandits. If race registration is closed, there is a reason, usually safety or permits.

I know it stinks to pay for a race months in advance and then not be able to run. It's happened to me, and seems like a waste. But that is a very well known item in running. If you don't like it, you can do a race with late (and possibly higher) registration, or you can miss out on a race that closes. Those are the realities.

If you were a race director, how would you feel if someone bandited your race? Most of them do it cause they love and support running, and don't make (much) money off it. Support the races.

Back about 12 years ago here in Utah we had a lot of races that cost $5 or less with no shirt. Somehow the race directors managed to pull it off. Nowadays, a race under $20 is considered cheep. What happened?

Races have become parties. A course, a clock, and some competition are no longer enough for your average runner. He wants frills. A simple course is too boring, so lots of roads need to be closed or at least monitored by police. He need to be motivated with a band at the finish or even mid-race. He wants a DJ that will announce his name when he crosses the finish line. He wants doughnuts and ice cream at the end. He wants a finisher medal. There needs to be a raffle. He wants a nice looking shirt. If something goes wrong he might sue the race director. There is a little bit of the perceived value aspect as well - some race directors will keep the entry fee higher for that reason. Availability of credit makes people more willing to pay inflated prices, you can always charge $30 on a credit card and hope to pay it off later some time even when you do not have it in your budget. All of those things add up, and we have no more simple races.

All of this stuff adds up to the point where your average college student or somebody who is barely out of school, or somebody who has just had tough luck with jobs, who will not live off borrowed money cannot afford to race very much. So in essence what is happening is that people with disposable income due to the laws of market are altering the running scene and are starting to push those without out of the competitive aspect of the sport. This is ridiculous, something as simple as running is becoming a sport for the rich, or shall we say the rich and those willing to act rich. This is not good for a number of reasons, and needs to be fixed.

My family just participated in a run last evening that costed $2 each (I didn't run, but was there to encourage and cheer). There are other stripped down races in our area that I've participated in over the past year for minimal costs- $7, $5, $2, + one race with a suggested donation. Thank God for these low-cost experiences, they were simple and yet still fun. However, I'm not ready to bash the races with "bells" and "whistles". Our local road race this past June provided numerous bands, a t-shirt, meatball sandwiches (ummm...good!), children races, celebrities (2 former Boston marathon winners), intercom encouragement (the guy called me the "Rockness Monsta"...cool!), and 50% of the community in attendance or participating (in a town of 8,000)...all for $20 and worth every cent. Were there a few bandits...yes. I know many of the organizers and they have no problem overlooking them...in fact, would probably give them a "comp" if $$ was a legitimate issue. At the same time, I feel good contributing the $20, so that our town (runners and non-runners) can enjoy and celebrate a true community event. If it wasn't for this event (I entered for the first time 3 years ago), I would not presently be a runner.

I agree, Sasha, that many races are overdone and it is unfortunate they are becoming so expensive. But maybe it's not all bad if it gets more people to run. I personally love it when races stay inexpensive or offer no t-shirt options. Like you, Dave, I like supporting inexpensive races. There is a 10k near me that offers a $5 no t-shirt, no-award entry, or a $20 t-shirt and award, and I do the $5 every time.

But it is up to the race director to set the price, not us. Our choice is to run it at the price the RD sets, or not run the race. Or support less expensive races, if you want. Bandit just doesn't seem right to me. It's like computer programs- you can pay a lot for Microsoft, you can use Linux, or you can choose to not own a computer. But pirating Microsoft isn't right.

Obviously Banditing is not the ethical high ground.

HOwever, I did once bandit a race and feel good about it. It was a half marathon is Chicago a few years ago. Put on by the infamous John "Penguin" Bingham of runnersworld fame. A fellow blogger from Arizona won airfare and entry to the race from another of the Penguin's races. The great Penguin then failed to provide the airfare as promised. I had planned to do the race with my blogger friend, but I now was not going to give any money to the Penguin so I proudly bandited the race. I put a detailed post on my blog and a different fellow blogger forwarded it to the Penguin himself. The end result was a public apology to my friend. My only regret is that I didn't chew out the Penguin in person after the race.

I consider banditing unethical. In my ethics class in college we were taught 6 different codes, or ethical paradigms. One basically states that if everyone made the choice you are making, would the advantage you are claiming be erased? This is why staying in a lane on a road, when you know the lane is closing, until you get ahead of dozens of cars that merged earlier is unethical, you are seeking an unfair advantage over your community. There would be no races, no events, if a large percentage bandited. If you are not obtaining a benefit, even if not using their water/portapotties, then why are you showing up? Part of the benefit racers pay for is the environment of a race and the marking of the course. If you don't want to pay for a 10k, then mark your own 10k and run it on your own or organize a group of your friends, but I don't think its right to jump into a for pay race.

David, my personal opinion is that it would be fine if you first asked permission from the race organizers. If you didn't, I'd say you would be a bandit.

Michelle, nice explanation. I was trying to think up an analogy to help myself understand. The best I could come up with is that of other sports competitions. Since this is running, let's say it's an Olympic race held in a stadium. A very few people participating in that event (the elite runners, coaches, etc.) would get to participate for free or even get paid by sponsors to participate. These could be compared to elite runners in a road race. The rest of the participants are the spectators who have to pay a fee to participate. They could be compared to non-elite participants in a road race. No matter how high the price to get into the Olympic stadium or whether the stadium were sold out, it wouldn't be right (in my opinion) to sneak into the stadium and participate anyway. As Michelle said, if 100,000 people did that (an extremely high number for illustration purposes), it would be mayhem. The analogy isn't perfect, but hopefully it makes sense.

Michelle:

If everybody free-loaded, my race would still be around. I suppose I would have a problem with permits and insurance becoming cost-prohibitive to do it out of pocket, but then if I had several hundred people show up I'd be able to find sponsors to pay for the permits. Everybody is a free loader when using Google but Google is thriving as a business. At least they do have a revenue model. Twitter does not, and they still have capital to operate, their investors, investors who are money-hungry and not stupid, still believe in them. We are entering a new era in economics. We are realizing that whenever a sufficiently large crowd gathers around, there are economic opportunities that can be realized without charging mandatory fees.

This is not to encourage banditing, though. If your budget does to permit $20 entry fees, come to my races. That is one reason I have them - to give those who cannot/will not spend $20+ per race an option to race legally and get an official time. Unfortunately a free or low-cost race is still a strange idea in Utah. From posters from some other states it appears that it is more of a local problem.

Interestingly enough Utah is one of the leaders in the nation in the area of bankruptcy. The proposed explanation has been that we have too many children. I wonder if the true reason is that we do not know how to manage our finances having a tendency to shop for frills we cannot afford. Which carries into racing among other things.

Sasha- if 300 people showed up at your race but refused to register or wear bibs, but they still lined up at the start, ran the course, and ran across the finish line, I imagine it would tick off you and all the runners who did register, plus may clog the course and confuse the people at the finish line. As RD, you can ask runners to do certain things- pay (not for your race), register, run the correct course, don't litter, etc. If they want to run the race, they should do what you ask. Bandits, whether they just don't pay or if they don't follow what the RD asks, can affect every race to some degree, even your free races. I know I would not be happy if people chose to mess up a race I was in charge of.

There are dozens of ethical stances that could be made for or against banditing a race, depending on your perspective, your world view and the span of your time horizon.

Is it ethical for a race director to use public streets or land that were paid for by a disproportionate amount of taxes levied against the few prosperous citizens in a community who may or may not then be allowed to use the race course while the race director profits from it?
Is it ethical to pay to enter the race using a fiat based currency (a debt instrument in and of itself against the nation of its origin), thus further putting said nation further into debt against aggressive creditor nations? Perhaps we should pay for races with gold or silver to remove the moral dilemma.
Is it ethical for there to even be a road that we run on after it was stolen from Mexico and Native Americans?
Is it ethical to use money to "frivolously" spend it on a race when that same money may have a higher and better use being spent on starving children?
Is it ethical to even be running a race when our time should be spent fighting disease, poverty, and world hunger?
Is it ethical to disallow economically challenged runners from entering a race, thus further contributing to their downward spiral of physical and psychological problems while the "have's" are allowed to have access to such venues?

I won't continue making a list of possible moral dilemmas here, but I will recognize that as long as I wish to be a "morally upright runner inside of the current paradigm" I should always strive to pay entrance fees to races. Haha. I sure do long for the "good 'ol days" when running was about running and you could participate in races for a few bucks for a T-shirt and didn't have to deal with all the other crap. Races nowadays are all about frills and fast times. Where are all the "fun" races that aren't all down-hill and on boring, uncreative courses? What would be wrong with allowing elite runners to always run free or get a refund of their entrance fee as long as they break a certain time?

I think I'll endorse Sasha's races and perhaps we can see more runners demand races that are about running and not all the other nonsense. :)

--Ben

Quote from: bencrozier on July 13, 2009, 02:16:52 pm

I think I'll endorse Sasha's races and perhaps we can see more runners demand races that are about running and not all the other nonsense. :)

Vs. "endorsing" other races you don't pay for? ;)

I actually have bandited a race and didn't/don't feel too bad about it, but it's not something I think I'll do again. More 'cause I don't see the purpose (when I could just go run somewhere else on my own that day and be guaranteed to come in 1st place).

Just wanted to take a cheap shot Ben!

Jon - it would be a very hypothetical situation that 300 people would show up, run the course, and not register when registration is free. And, if it did happen on a regular basis, this would attract sponsors. I can say I had 20 official participants, and 280 spectators along the course.

Besides, a race director does not usually receive the exclusive right to use public roads. I am not a legal expert, but it seems to me that if you removed a bandit from the course, and he decided to sue he would win unless the race director posted a "no trespassing" sign on every cone or something like that. How would you defend against the argument that if somebody not registered is allowed to ride a bike or walk on the course, that somebody could not run? Removing a bandit would work maybe on a course like Boston where there is some legal provision that the course is available only to registered runners and support vehicles.

I think if the course is on a public road that is not explicitly closed to all non-race related traffic and the race director is charging money, it is his responsibility to give people a reason to pay to be officially in the race. He has to rely on the good will of the runners. If runners do not feel like paying $20 for a shirt, some food, official time, and a chance to compete for awards, then it is his loss for not offering a $5 bare essentials option. But I do not see this happening in Utah very soon - most runners, odd as it is in tough economic times, prefer to pay $20 or more for the full service. I suppose we would need to wait for the tough times to get tougher before we see a change.

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General Category => Running => Topic started by: Cutika99 on July 09, 2009, 01:44:52 pm