Aid Stops during training

[Fredrick Teichert]

I'm sure this topic has been discussed, but I'm not finding anything on it. How often should I be drinking/rejuvenating during training? I hate carrying a waist pack, but stashing liquids is starting to get annoying as well. Most of my water sources dry up (are actually turned off) in the winter so sometimes I just run my ten miles without replenishing at all. Probably not a good idea. What do the rest of you do?

[Paul Petersen]

Probably not healthy for me, but I usually don't take any food or water during a normal road run, unless it's a group run where someone else supplies it. Too much hassle, and I just want to get the run done; I hate stopping. If I happen to run past a water fountain, I'll might pause to get a drink, but that's about it. Trail runs are a different story, as I always run with a pack.

So those are my own bad habits. I think I've seen some dehydration and fueling rates in Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathoning book, so that would be the could place to start. I believe he wrote to take about 24-28 ounces of fluid per hour during a marathon, which equates to about a cup of gatorade every few miles or so. I'm sure you could scale that for training as well as racing. This will vary with the weather; if it's hot you may need more, if it's cold you will need less.

[Fredrick Teichert]

Obviously, you're not dead yet, Paul, so that's probably good enough for me. I wonder, though, how much less dead you'd be if you took stuff with you? I've read that it's important to start replenishing glycogen stores at about 90 minutes, otherwise you start to metabolize muscle. I'd prefer to metabolize fat, I still have a little of that to give. What do you do on long runs, I mean long for you?

[Paul Petersen]

For long runs, I might take a Gu packet. But I've done many 2+ hour runs with nothing. But I always eat a lot immediately after a run: gatorade, dried fruit, bananas, Gu, etc.

[Eric Day]

Only on my long runs I take my iron belt with the liquid bottles full. Also, I take a Gu packet or two, depending on the distance. For my daily runs, don't take anything, but I do have a full water bottle at the car at drink as soon as I finish my stretching after the run...
This has worked fine for me...

[adam]

I usually don't take anything either, unless it is very hot out. It always throws me off to have to pick up a bottle I left out on the trail or whatever, especially on long runs.

Also, you're body will NEVER metabolize muscle during exercise. Normally, your glycogen stores will get you through 45-90 minutes of exercise (depending on the intensity), after which your body begins to break down fat as a primary fuel source. Unfortunately, the body depends on carbohydrate to effeciently burn fat as feul, meaning that you have to have some form of carbohydrate supply coming in, which is supplied through the reformation of glucose (gluconeogenisis) by amino acids, lactate, and glycerol. This is only a temporary solution, which is why it is much more effective to supply yourself with sports drink or gu or something like that early on to keep the engine running. Generally, for lower intensity and longer duration running, even if it is less than an hour, the body will use fat as its primary source of fuel with a lower porportion of energy coming through glucose/glycogen metabolism. With increase in intensity and shorter durations comes the faster depletion of muscle and liver glycogen stores.

So in order to become a fast marathoner, you need to have a very effective fat burning system (which comes through consistent longer duration training) that can be in play during intense running. In other words,your training will allow you to rely more heavily on fat as fuel, perserving your glycogen stores for longer, allowing you to go faster for much longer. Since this is the case, it may be effective to do longer runs without any kind of fuel to increase training of your fat burning system. This is not necessarily the best idea though. And, despite how skinny many of us are, a 150 pound person with a healthy fat range keep upwards of 80,000-100,000 calories of stored fat (or about 85 super sized big mac meals of calories). Fats supply more than twice the energy of carbohydrates or proteins, and is available in a much more storeable form.

Now, back to using carbohydrate to aid in recovery: A good rule is to aim for about .5 grams of Carbohydrate per pound of your current body weight within the first 30 minutes post exercise, again within the next 2 hours, and again about 4-6 hours later. That should help restore glycogen levels and aide in recovery. So a 150 pound person would want about 75 g carbohydrate in their meal/drink combo.

[Fredrick Teichert]

Adam, thanks for the science. Now I can see why many of you elite runners get away with carrying so little. I still worry about metabolizing muscle. You said that wouldn't happen, but body builders seem to be obsessed with this. Also, since the brain is made mostly of fat, do you think that running (which burns fat) is the reason I get dumber every day. Okay the last part was kind of a lame joke. Also, what about dehydration? When does that come into play?

[Jeff Linger]

Interestingly, Pfitzinger and Fitzgerald (Brain Training for Runners) have different approaches to this topic. There are a number of people out there who are beginning to say that you will train your body well by not taking anything on your long runs (depending on weather). This doesn't necessarily mean every long run, but its good to go without sometimes. I take nothing on runs under 18 miles and usually take 1 gu pack on runs over 18 miles, but usually don't use them until the 15+ mark. I never take liquids. If I run across a place to grab water I usually do, but I don't actively seek it out. Last weekend I did 22. I took a Gu at mile 16.5 and got a drink there (probably 8-12 ounces of water). Of course, I would not employ such a method during a marathon race.

[Sasha Pachev]

I suppose you could get slightly better results by figuring out the right refueling strategies for your body in training. For me, however, a healthy high-carb meal within 30 minutes after a run has been sufficient. Nothing during a run unless it is very hot.

[Fredrick Teichert]

Thanks, all! I used to worry that every ache or pain had it's origin in a flask of Gatorade I forgot to drink. Probably not.

[adam]

Thanks, all! I used to worry that every ache or pain had it's origin in a flask of Gatorade I forgot to drink. Probably not.

Welcome to the Dark Side. Or, at least the non-Runner's World school of thought.

[Dallen]

I think many of us, including me, fall victim to using a completely different fueling strategy in training compared to races. Most of us take close to nothing on out long runs. Then when the big race comes we will take gatorade/water at every station and try to down a few Gu's. This likely explains why many of us often end up unpleasantly leaving much of our gatorade/gu on the side of the road.

I justify my minimalist training replenishment regimen by assuming that I am training my body to handle the stress.

I suspect it is best to try both approces in training to best prepare the body.

Don't worry about what bodybuilders think. They spend their whole lives obsessing about burning muscle.

[Bonnie]

Personally I think everyone is different and you have to experiment on what works for you.  I have super low-blood sugar problems and can get really sick after a long run if I don't take a gu.  So, after a little trial and error I take a gu about every 8-10 miles for every run that is longer than about 13 miles - in races and in training.  When it is not hot I can go for about 13 miles without water, in the heat I drink at the same time I take a gu. 

I don't think that the Runner's World model is wrong for some people, nor do I think that the "I don't need water or gu" is wrong for some people.  But, I do think it is wrong to think that there is only one correct answer.  Listen to your body and do whatever helps you run as well as you can.  And anything you think you are going to do in a race you need to pratice in training.

[Fredrick Teichert]

Excellent comments all! Just what I was looking for! Do any of you worry about the color of your, um, urine?

[Jon Allen]

If it's purple, green, or blue, I would be worried...