Flat Races In Utah (ha ha) - tentative race schedule

[Sasha Pachev]

Dallen:

The reason the first 3 miles of the Provo River Half are down a steep grade is pure logistics. If you started it anywhere else there are issues with permits, extra fees for police protection, etc. Same deal with Hobble Creek.

GSL 1/2 is officially dead.

We do have some non-aided not terribly slow races:

Provo City Half - loop course, starts and finishes by the Provo Tabernacle, certified
Spanish Fork Half - non-certified, but mile markers on it were good, hopefully right distance
SLC Track Club Winter Series - 5, 10, 15 K - out and back courses, almost Chicago pancake flat
Earn Your Turkey 4 Miler - loop course in Orem
St. George Half - loop course

We do not have good marathons that meet USATF qualification standards. But we can organize one. Now that they said a marathon can drop 300 feet, I think with some creativity we can make a course here in Utah that will match St. Jude for a good altitude runner. We just need to find a Canyon that gently drops right out into a small flat valley. The key is absolutely no uphill, uphill is bad at sea-level, but is absolute death at altitude. Any ideas?

This could be the Fast Running Blog marathon. I do not care if we have to do it in the middle of nowhere, run the loop at the bottom of the canyon 15 times, and if we have only 10 people. In fact, that may be good if it is small. Certify the course, set up pot-luck "elite" aid stations, load the field into the Fast Running Van, drive them up the canyon, and let's have fun see if we can qualify. Those who are off pace stop at 15, call it a long run, and try again in two months. Who says we cannot do that?

BTW, you can really learn to run at altitude with proper training. Renato Canova's 26:30 Kenyans run 27:05 or so at 8000 feet in 10000.

[Paul Petersen]

Actually, a marathon can drop 450' and still be a Trials qualifer. Basically they set the criteria to equal what Boston drops, in order to include Boston. So that gives even more wiggle room.

[allie]

seems like a good idea. i definitely am interested. when i think of "flat" in utah i think I-80 westbound. driving out to the SLCTC race over the weekend reminded me that flat does exist in utah, but you have to travel to the middle of nowhere to find it.

[Paul Petersen]

This thread reminds me of an old thread:

http://fastrunningblog.com/forum/index.php/topic,340.0.html

[Greg Harris]

I live in Cedar City, so of course I would want one down here.  I have one that we could lengthen a bit from a 21 miler that I do sometimes for training.  It runs from the north end of Cedar City down to Kanarraville and New Harmony at Exit 42.  There is a Texaco gas station there.  I could make it start at about 5600 ft. and end at 5150 feet.  Just a thought, but it is a good run.  Any hills on the route are very minimal.

[Paul Petersen]

I think if you wanted to make the fastest Trials-eligible course in Utah, it would have to be in the St. George area. It is the lowest elevation in the state. It would just be a matter of finding something flat enough.

[Superfly]

Logan and I have kind of been "talking" about starting up a USA marathon championship down here in STG. You'd have to qualify for the event. Sub 2:40 for men and 3:00 for women. We have a really flat course that is out in the fields and does have a small section of the Painters course in it. If we ever did get going on it the event would be great. Kind of a middle ground for those who can qualify for Boston but may never find themselves running a OTQ time. This is just the nuts and bolts... we actually have a lot of other plans for it. Big purse, hot showers, and all the other things that would make it wonderful.

[Nathan Bundy]

You're gonna need an addition on the house if you are going to include hot showers clyde...

[Sasha Pachev]

My  vote right now is for the Washington Fields area in St. George. I think runners training at 4000 feet or higher will run there only a minute slower than they would in Berlin.

Clyde, Logan:

a) Can you find a way to drop exactly 450 feet into that area as gradually as possible and with no rolling? If you need to test an idea, use the Course Tool.

b) Take wind patterns into consideration. I've run in that area several time, and remember the air being perfectly still. Did I luck out, or is it just well protected by the mountains?

c) Do know know anybody in the area who has the Jones counter? If you can get your hands on one you can do the certification work by yourself, and it will cost I think around only $30-$50 to file the papers. Jones counter is $90 on the USATF site.

[Superfly]

Yeah we need to get going on this little project. Anyone want to help?

[Paul Petersen]

I'll sponsor you a set of really nice maps. I'd offer to do a website too, but there's no way I have time for that.

[Bill Cobler]

I might be able to help with certification of the course, but it would need to be a time that I will be down there.  It can take along time to do a full marathon, even on the best of courses.  When I did Painters earlier this year we started calibrating at day light and did post calibration after 10:30 at night.  We did run into problems with the course being short in the end and had to add a short turn around, but the end will change again next year because they are building the new off ramp there. 

Remember when you design the course to try to find a place that will not change too much over the years so you can keep a good course for a long time.

Michelle to get things back on track.  Circuit only requires that you do at least 4 races to be eligible for year end awards.  If you pick and place good you don't need to do too many, but we count your best 8 race scores max. and you gain sometimes important bonus points if you do more.  Down hill racing can benefit your turn over and can be used for training.  Use it as training, down hill running can really beat you up and put you on the verge of injury.  You can find plenty of places to do good long runs that are not too much down hill and your long runs should be the staple of your marathon training anyway.  Mileage and being consistant is the key to success.  Too much speed and too much down hill and you will not make it to the starting line.  Keep your goal in mind as a journey, it doesn't matter how fast you are in work outs if you don't make it to the startline.  Paul is right that the circuit can race you into shape, but be smart about it and race them with your marathon goal as your main focus.  Don't let them dictate or compromise your weekly training.  Rail trail up by Park City has some great stretches that is at altitude, soft trail and very mild rolling and can be a great spot to train.

[Superfly]

thanks guys. We will call on both of your services at a later time. We are trying to design the course to be in Washington City limits. So we don't have to mess with any political crap from St. George City as most of the time they are a pain to work with. I guess then next real step is to get a good basic loop mapped out and then get the city on board. Keep in mind I came up with the idea but would love someone else to take the money and run with the idea... any takers?

[Paul Petersen]

That's the hard part. It's easy to be an Idea Man and spew out suggestions, but much harder to find the time, energy, and people to actually do something. Best of luck! 

That said, first steps would probably be to talk to a few folks who are race directors. They will tell you the nuances and important things to do when setting up a new race. Then come up with a potential route (or routes), send me the info, and I will sketch up a map, which you can then use to help with permitting and planning. Get the permits, set up a website, and start some cheap, grassroots marketing. I think the first year could be mostly word-of-mouth and Bloggers supporting the race. Keep things as cheap as possible, no frills, and keep everything completely in the black. Kind of the trial run. Work out the kinks after the first year, prove that it's a fast course, and then try to really spread the word. Let the race grow slowly and organically. Take a look at everything Devine has done, and then do the opposite.

There's my stab at being Idea Man! Like I said, I can help with mapping (which leads to analysis that helps out with planning and permitting), but obviously you'll need a group on the ground in Washington County to really do the legwork.

[Jon Allen]

You probably have as much free time as anyone to work on the race, Clyde, so it looks like it's your baby to run with! (pun intended)

Just curious, what time of year are you thinking?