1st Annual Running of the Leopards 5K--March 2009

[Steve P]

I'm not sure how much this race is, but the most important thing to me in a 5K race is that it be affordable. I remember when it used to cost maybe $5-10 to run a race. Now it costs $15-20 minimum. That can't just be inflation. Personally I don't need any more t-shirts and don't really care about awards. I'd just like to be able to run races with great people and not drain my budget doing it. I can see how longer races would cost more, but $100 for a marathon seems too much. I think MaryAnn does some races that are pretty reasonably priced, which is cool.

[allie]

What is swag?  All the free stuff you get, not counting the raffle or prizes won for placement?  In reply to the poll, I would like to add that the most important thing in a race to me is having deep cash prizes, so I guess that fits under awards.  I just wanted to specify that so you don't think a trophy or medal is what I'm going after.

yes, you are correct. s.w.a.g. - "stuff we all get"  t-shirt; little sample packets of things like sunscreen, advil samples, flexall, gu; flyers and coupons to other races, and often a drawstring plastic bag to carry it all. it is also sometimes called "schwag", but be careful using this term because depending on who you are talking to it can take on a different meaning... low-grade marijuana. 

[Jon Allen]

Personally I don't need any more t-shirts and don't really care about awards. I'd just like to be able to run races with great people and not drain my budget doing it

Amen, brother!  I couldn't say it better.  I love races with a no t-shirt option if it saves you money.  And rather than little awards at the end, spend the money on food at the finish line- donuts, bananas, cheesecake, bread, t-bone steaks...

[MarkP_]

Hi Bill,

I'll be there and 10-20 of our weekend running crew.

Thanks,
Mark

[Bill Cobler]

I hear you on the t-shirt, My family runs races all year long which could be about 30 races or more a year.  4-5 shirts an event X 30 a year is a closet and laundry room overflowing with t-shirts.  With that being said, I do have my favorite ones each year that I seem to wear around or train in.  We didn't want just another t-shirt, or advertising billboard, for our race.  We have a tech shirt with a small logo on the front and a bigger one on the back.  Not cluttered with sponsors and a comfortable shirt to wear or workout in.  We are spending about the same price on the shirt and printing as the family entry price per person.  So we are not making money on shirts, but want it to be a nice part of the race for people who only do a few each year.  As a new race director, I think seeing the shirts around town the remainder of the year will advertise it for next year.  Now we just need to live up to the bill of a well organized race so we can keep growing.  We received 70 more entries in the mail today.  Keep them coming and tell family and friends that it's cheaper to run as a family.  And the focus of the race is family fittness anyway.

[Sasha Pachev]

There are hardly any races nowadays with the no-shirt options. I do not know why. Pressure from sponsors without the funding of the shirts? We need more "shirtless" races.

 It bugs me when the highest prize in the raffle is better than the prize for the overall race winner. Regardless if that winner is me or somebody else, or if I finished far behind to not earn any prize. This sends a very wrong message. It tells me the race director has no real respect or appreciation for the work and the talent it takes to run fast. Somebody comes, runs 14:30 5 K on a certified loop course, give him your best from the heart. If you give him a trophy and nothing else, that is just bad. It tells him, your 90+ mile weeks, your brutal speed workouts, your discipline, your talent are altogether worth a just trophy. Some random guy's luck is worth two airplane tickets or a treadmill. A dozen experiences like this, and your potentially 2:06 marathon post-collegiate star says forget it, I am going to sell insurance! And I do not blame him.

[adam]

I think its funny that during the winter, many races start in the early morning (7-8am) and during the summer, they are at 9 or 10am. So during the winter, its dark and cold during the start, and during the summer, its sunny and hot.

Also, there are too few prize money races around. Even something like $25 can be found to reward a winner. That's just one entry fee for most races. Most of the time the runner would love to have that money to pay for part of some bills, or gas money to the race, or something, and it gives more runners incentive to come. Just say something like "oh, and $50 goes to the winner" right before the gun goes off. see if people get a little bit more competitive. Or have each runner drop some change into a bucket at the registration table for the winner, like tips at a restaurant, before the race starts. Then split that up to the male & female winner. This is a very overlooked part of racing events.

And more shirtless options would be nice, especially when most shirts are too oversized for runners.

[Bill Cobler]

I don't want to start a debate on prize money, but I will give a couple of my opinions on the matter.  Our race is awarding $975 in prize money.  This is a small amount but we are a first time race.  With bigger and better plans for the future, which depends on feedback and outcome.  The main purpose of our race is not to make money, but instead show students the importance of fitness and the many fun ways they can stay active.  We have encouraged students to do the race as a family and friends event.  Yes, we could have left it as a "fun run" but we wanted more.  I knew prize money would attract some of the top runners and the USATF circuit would bring even more.  We do have some of the top Male and Female runners coming. And I hope this might spark an excitement for the sport in a few of the students.  Just seeing and running with elites makes it a better event.  If we offered higher prize money we might even be able to attract a bigger elite field from other close states.  But as one local elite told me it would just eliminate some of our own top state contenders from getting a pay day.  Prize money generally only effects a very small percentage of the participants.  Where as everyone can get a chance at a raffle prize.  This should not be looked at as a slap in the face to an elite.  First, yes top runners do work hard to be their best and are not always rewarded monetarily, but is money really the reason most of us run.  The payday is only a bonus.  I know the money I have won has been nice, but pennies on the dollar for time spent.  I could go work a couple extra hours and be much farther ahead.  I have always said if I was doing it for the money I should take up golf.  The top 10% in their tournaments get huge paydays.  It has always bugged me how Nike spends so much on golf and their endorsements to people like Tiger and yet give a much smaller amount to top runners.  Afterall, it was running that got them started.  When I toured their headquarters in Portland you would have thought their background was only golf.  But that's a different fight.  We have chose to be runners, we go into it knowing that it's not a big payday sport.  It's like teachers, they deserve much more, but they made their career choice knowing full well that they would not be compensated with huge salaries, but chose to do it for other benefits and rewards.  And who is to say that an elite who runs 14:30 in a 5K has done anything more special than the guy who just had two knee transplants and walked the whole way pushing his new grandson in a stroller.  The great thing of running is we all can win.  We all have goals and they can meet or beat us daily. 

I see many big fish in this small pond that don't venture far from this pond.  There are many National championships across the country that have great prize money and Big races attract big competition.  We have an awesome running community here in Utah and I hope we continue to bring more interest to our lifelong love of the sport.

We have now over 500 entries for the race.  I hope to see many more of you next weekend.  We hope to make it worth your time and training.

[Steve P]

Hi Bill,

I really don't want it to sound like I'm being hard on you, but I thought of another thing I like in a race. Your race sounds incredible, but your poll got me thinking...

I like loop courses, or at least courses that don't have a ton of downhill without corresponding uphill. I've run some beautiful point-to-point courses (e.g. Moab Half, St. George Marathon, Spectrum 10K) that bode well for fast times. But then I always feel like I have to adjust my time due to the downhill and can't feel as much satisfaction from the time. Sometimes you can compare your time from year to year, but often they change the course route, so it's not an exact comparison. Part of this preference comes from running loop courses in high school x-country (years ago). Loop courses are also typically better for spectators (in my experience).

Just a few thoughts...best wishes on your race!

-Steve

[Sasha Pachev]

Bill:

The 14:30 guy has the talent and cherishes it. The 16:30 guy may have the talent and not cherish it, or may not have much talent and cherish what he has, you do not know. Your random guy runs 23:00-25:00. With some rare exceptions, he does not have much talent, and does not particularly care to develop it. If he did care, he would be running under 20:00, again with some rather rare exceptions. To throw a huge raffle prize into the crowd, while giving a lot less to the race winner, is to say that neither talent nor hard work are worth much.

If you want to promote active lifestyle, limit the raffle to the men who break 20:00 and the women who break 25:00.

Raffle aside, there is a reason this is called a race. I think there is a very important lesson that kids in American schools today are not learning. Somebody is always going to do better than somebody else, and he is going to get more. If that is not you, that's OK, do not throw in the towel, do not make excuses, do not say he is getting more than he deserves, instead work harder, and try again. Or maybe try a different sport if that is not where your talents are until you find the right one. Harsh, but trains you for success in real life. Instead they learn "everyone is a winner", but in truth, if you think about it, it is more of "everyone is a loser". Fake sense of winning does not teach you to deal with disappointment, you do not learn to succeed in spite of it. And you do not value real success and the hard work it takes to get there. If 25:00 5 K off 3 miles a day 3 days a week is "amazing", then what's the point of doing 8 miles a day 6 days a week to run sub-20:00? It is still just as amazing, everyone is a winner. So why work?

[Glen]

There are hardly any races nowadays with the no-shirt options. I do not know why. Pressure from sponsors without the funding of the shirts? We need more "shirtless" races.

Maybe in Utah, but not Southern Oregon.  There are 2-4 races a month within 30 miles of my city and every race has the no-shirt option when registering.  On average the entry fee is $10 with a shirt, $5 without and a couple bucks added on for late fees.  At the same time, refreshments are limited (oranges, bananas and H2O) and ribbons are given out for awards, nothing more.  Pure and simple--it makes racing much more appealing when it doesn't impact ones bank account as much.

[James Moore]

Bill I find the course posted online to be about a quarter mile short! Are you sure you have the starting line in the right place on the map?

[maryannsc]

That's a lot in cash prizes!  Wow, Bill, so 500 people x $20 per person minimum, that's $10,000 gross (before t-shirts, refreshments, USATF fees, cash prizes, etc.)!  Great job!  I hope you don't feel too overwhelmed by everyone's suggestions. 

I don't think there is anything that CAN be immoral about rates charged or prize distribution, except withholding a prize you advertised when they signed up.  I think people should be more supportive of race directors so that there are more races to choose from.  Races are extremely risky financially and don't usually pay off for the first few years, which scares people off into more financially-safe hobbies or ways of serving the community without getting into debt.  There are no college degrees in road race directing, so there are many mistakes made and many things to be learned that take a while to develop.  If you spend twice as much time as it would take once you became more experienced and proficient on the first races, but get paid the same, you are the one paying for your lack of efficiency the first few races whether you meet your bills or not.  Bill has obviously got some talent in this field, as he has successfully gained such a large crowd in the first race.  A race is very taxing emotionally, yet can be also equally rewarding.  You are dealing with lots of people first hand, lots of different personalities, lots of feedback, positive or negative.  You take it personally when you take 2 hours of someone's day, someone's life, and their money, and want them to leave with a smile and not feel like you took advantage of them by deceiving them into paying you for a mediocre experience that you advertised otherwise.  You want to feel good about yourself at the end of the race or the money will feel dirty and you will feel guilty keeping it.

I'm not directing this towards Bill because I'm not saying that he's doing this, but I don't see anything wrong with charging people as much as you can get from them, because that's how business works, unless someone has a monopoly on the market and there aren't opportunities to choose other businesses and price shop.  I used to be surprised that some people that I thought of as very spiritual and religious were charging a lot in their professions for their services.  I saw the houses they bought and their lifestyles and was surprised that they would charge poor and rich people alike top dollar for their work, just because people didn't know better options or couldn't do the tasks themselves.  But now I accept that people have the freedom to choose their rates and people can take it or leave it.  They can choose their comfort of lifestyle and refuse to accept anything less if they want.

 I'm not very business-minded sometimes, so I tend to give away lots of free services and drop my prices so low with fun runs sometimes that I can't even break even with race expenses, such as equipment or even compensating the massive amounts of time I spend advertising and putting them on.  But after doing this for a few months it has become clear to me that races are not as lucrative initially as they may seem for those putting them on. 

What may seem like something that was organized in a couple days and very cheap to put on usually has a lot more going on behind the scenes than you know about.  I used to always be very critical of race directors, which inspired me to put on races because I thought I could easily correct all the problems I saw in races that seemed so easy to fix.  Now I realize that every little thing takes lots of work.  Just like computer programming, as Sasha has explained to me, there are hundreds of lines of code for every simple thing on websites that I take for granted and sometimes get irritated about because they aren't perfect in every way.  Now that I know a little more about computers and race directing, I am a little more appreciative of every little good thing about a race and a website that I used to assume was a given. 

I've got a lot more work to do with my fun runs.  On the other hand, sometimes if you charge a little more, you can afford to give a better quality race because you can buy or rent timing equipment and other things that I think some people would rather pay more for to ensure accuracy, etc.   We can't expect every race director to make every race just to our specifications, because not everyone wants the same things.  But we should encourage those putting races on so people can choose the ones that suit them best.  Utah has more options than many places, but still, I think we need more to choose from, which is another reason I added mine.

I should be working on my race right now and not blabbing so much on here, but this is a personally sensitive subject to me and I'm worried about Bill feeling overwhelmed by so many suggestions.  It's hard for me to stay excited about putting races on with too much negative feedback, and as a result, I get burned out and don't work as hard on preparing it as I did when I was on fire, which in turn generates more negative feedback and I've been on the brink of giving up a few times.  But with the encouragement of my loving family and especially my sister Julie, I pulled through the rough times and now my race size has exploded!  Of course Bill is probably a lot tougher emotionally than I am.  Anyways, keep up the good work Bill!

[Bill Cobler]

Mary ann,

Thanks for the nice comments.  My circumstances are very different from most first time race directors and I'm kind of just a token race director in this case.  This is a school event and the PTSA asked me to be apart of putting on this activity.  It is a continuation of the fitness walk the school did last year, along with the challenge our Principal achieved of losing 100 pounds before the school year ended.  He has gone on with his training, most mornings he starts by 4 am because of his daily schedule, and plans after our 5K to run the SLC half marathon, 3 weeks later. 

So I have a commitee that is very good and has put tons of man hours in planning this race.  We have had weekly meetings for several months and it does take a lot to put on a successful event and that's our goal.  I wish we really made as much as you suggested, if so people would be putting races on every weekend.  In our case, the students run for free if they meet a few requirements and about half of those registered are students.  Many families of students have also registered which is a discounted rate that barely meets the expense of their shirt cost.  With the cost of sanctioning, insurance, LDR circuit fees, Police and traffic barriers, City permits, Mass gathering permits with the health department, Buses, Prize money, advertising, Timing and computerized results, USATF course certification fees, Water, drinks and food, customized bib numbers, awards, and of course the T-shirt which some want,  The dollars disappear quickly and if it were not for some of the sponsors the event could not happen.  But each year should get bigger and better, with the kinks being worked out.  We have tried to look ahead to forsee the many possible errors we can make and hope only a few small ones will get passed us.  So I do hope you all do come and leave with a smile and feel like it was worth your time and money.

But with the big picture in mind, I hope we change someones life for the better.  If our event can spur even one person on to making a life change towards fitness we were a success.  Taking time to exercise is so important in these busy days we all have.  Stress and poor physical fitness habits can end life prematurely.  I think of the recent death of Larry H. Miller, a great man who gave much to our community, who was active when he was younger, but let his health slip due to his lack of fitness later in life.  Ultimately, losing his legs and finally his life.  Good health starts with being active and eating nutritionally balanced meals.  When I finish a good workout I seem to crave better foods and eat more healthy.  So yes it is a race, but a run or walk also, with a finishline that doesn't end when you hit the 5K mark on the track.  To some running fast to the 5K mark is the most important.  For others, just crossing the line and keep on going is even more important.  Just like in real life, some also value money, work and status over the more intrinsic things.  A coach once told me for every winner there is a loser.  Sport can teach many life lessons, some positive and some negative, but while working with kids foster a growing environment.  Like in the Disney song I think from Lion King,  I can't remember exactly how it goes but something like,"How high does a sycamore grow?  Cut it down and we'll never know."  As a coach I have learned that not all my athletes are on the team for the same reasons.  Some for fitness, Some for personal time goals, Some just want to be part of a team,  all are usually valid reasons.  They all may acheive different things from their participation, even learning different life lessons from the same team experiences.  But fostering this growing is so important and who knows, what or where they will go in life because of a good experience.  So yes everyone can be a winner, not just a 14:30 guy who was gifted genetically and works hard to acheive time goals.  But also the guy who comes and works hard at making friends, coming out of his shell of being too shy to talk to others.  Or the kid that was called fat-so all through grade school that now runs just to become more fit.  Running has changed my life and many others lifes, and yes it teaches me lessons daily.  Not just to be a winner or loser, or even if I'm not good at it to quit and try another sport, but it teaches me we are all different.  Different goals, different shapes, different sizes and we all run for different reasons.  But if running can give someone a better quality of life I want to foster that, not cut it down prematurely by deciding what true winning and losing is...

[maryannsc]

Beautiful Bill, I can see why you're a high school coach.  By the way, the movie is Pocahontas.  I agree whole-heartedly with you about not "cutting down" upcoming runners.  I've had coaches tell me to give up running because of a lack of potential/talent, and if I had listened, I wouldn't have gotten so many satisfying P.R.s after college.