Pacing question

[Jeff Necessary]

I'll refer anyone interested in answering to my Monday blog entry for specifics, but since I'm using Pfitz 24/55 for my current marathon program, pace is an important part of that plan and I'm having a hard time figuring out just what paces I should be using. What do you guys think?

[AndyBrowning]

McMillan's pace calculator is widely used and is a good guide.  Here is the link: http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm 

[Sasha Pachev]

I would say at this point your fitness will be changing so fast that you do not need to worry about precise pacing because it will be impossible to predict what your marathon/half-marathon/5K pace is going to be on any given day. Run by feel instead.

Also, to run a marathon under 4 hours no speed or tempos are necessary unless you suffer from some severe biomechanical limitations. Most able-bodied men will be able to exceed this goal by running at a comfortable pace for 6 miles 6 days a week consistently for a year. I would go as far as to say that in the absence of some severe limiting conditions, if you cannot break 4 in a marathon, it is not because of the lack of speed work, and doing it will not be beneficial until you are over that barrier.  The limiting factor is the lack of the base aerobic build-up. Your 10 K shows you have plenty of speed for a 4 hour marathon - you run it in the low-8:00. In the half you are down to slower than 10:00 pace, and in the full you go down all the way to 11:00, so you lose about 3:00 per mile going from 10 K to the marathon. For a comparison, an elite runner loses only about 20-30 seconds a mile going from his 10 K pace to the marathon. Why the difference in this ability? The elite runners have years of base aerobic conditioning behind them. Speed work helps them improve their mile and 5 K times. But base helps them hold a higher percentage of that speed in the marathon.

So if you just jog as much volume as your body can take, you'll be somewhere around 3:30-3:40 in the marathon in 6-8 months. I suggest training 6 days a week consistently running as much as you can so you still feel good enough for the same run the next day. Keep the pace easy. Your aerobic development is primarily a function of your mileage, and is very little affected by how fast you do it in comparison to how far you run. By running slower you can go more with the same level of fatigue, so in the end you get a higher aerobic base.

[Jeff Necessary]

I agree with you that the reasons for my 4:46 first marathon time were a lack of mileage (topped out at only 30 mpw), along with a severe case of cramps beginning at mile 17 (also probably due in part to inadequate training, as well as an unusually warm and humid March morning). The half time of 2:12 is where I finished the first 13.1 of that marathon (and the humidity was already taking its toll by then), so the last 13.1 took 2:34 worth of run-walking. That's 11:45 pace for the last half, including all the walking, after running the first half at 10:04 average.

Hence, my selection of a training plan that goes up to 55 mpw, nearly double what I did the first time. It would not surprise me if merely adding another 25 miles a week were enough to get me under four hours, and maybe even faster. But I don't object to Pete throwing in some tempo/VO2 work, if only to combat the boredom of doing the same thing over and over again, five to six days a week for six months. Besides, I like running fast 

Hey, I'm still building my base; I know that. I may need to look at going beyond 55 mpw even during this training cycle. I started training on July 7, 2007, from zero, and finished a marathon exactly 34 weeks later. A lot of people would argue that I should have built the base for 12-18 months minimum before I even attempted a marathon, and there is validity to that argument. But I set myself a challenge last summer and succeeded in meeting that challenge in 34 weeks. Now I have another challenge out there -- sub-four -- and that's why I'm on this site, to get your input on how to get there. Then I set my sights on a starting line spot in Hopkinton. Then again, with more mileage AND speed, maybe Hopkinton is closer than I think.