Food For Thought

[Jeff Linger]

I've watched a couple interesting shows lately on tv. I think they were called 'The Human Limit' or something to that effect. In one particular segment they were following a man who swam the english channel. To prepare for the 14 hour ordeal he put on an additional 16 pounds of body fat. During the course of the swim he lost about 14 pounds once his body switched from glycogen to fat as a source of fuel. In another segment they were discussing low caloric intake nutrition and how eating slightly below the normal intake can cause your brain to switch gears and prolong and in some cases even reverse the aging process. These two segments got me thinking and I wanted to hear what the marathoners out there are eating.

Q -- How long of a transition is it between your body running out of glycogen and switching over to fat. If one hits the wall, how long does it generally take to fight your way through to the other side?

Q -- Does anyone actually increase their fat intake prior to running a marathon? If so, explain. I'm thinking that 2-3 hours isn't significant enough to actually store up fat at the cost of extra weight and potential fitness.

Q -- What are you marathoners eating? How often do you eat? How much are you eating? Exactly what are you eating and in what quantities/ratios/etc.? Would anyone be willing to spend the time to put together a weeks diet in conjunction with the types of runs you're doing (not necessarily splits as much as tempo, vo2, lsd, etc) and at what distances.

[Sasha Pachev]

How long of a transition is it between your body running out of glycogen and switching over to fat. If one hits the wall, how long does it generally take to fight your way through to the other side?

According to science, if you push hard enough, the muscle glycogen is gone in 90 minutes. This is consistent with my experience in marathons. I start feeling a bit funny after 15-16 miles if I push it from the gun. After that you can still use liver glycogen for fuel which comes through blood sugar, but it does not get there fast as fast as muscle glycogen, and your brain wants some of it as well. You can run on fats for a long time, much longer than the marathon distance, but not very fast. When you hit the wall 100%, if your muscles are OK, you will run your fat pace, which is about the pace of your base aerobic run. Again, if your muscles and nervous system were willing to cooperate, you'd be able to go some extra distance after the finish at that pace in spite of hitting the wall earlier. Things turn to the brighter side if your body is able to refuel from the food/drinks you consume during the race. One time I sped up from 7:00 pace to 6:20 after hitting the wall hard on my face by refueling.

Does anyone actually increase their fat intake prior to running a marathon? If so, explain. I'm thinking that 2-3 hours isn't significant enough to actually store up fat at the cost of extra weight and potential fitness.

You will not run out of fat in a marathon. You may in an ultra, but I have no experience there.

What are you marathoners eating? How often do you eat? How much are you eating? Exactly what are you eating and in what quantities/ratios/etc.? Would anyone be willing to spend the time to put together a weeks diet in conjunction with the types of runs you're doing (not necessarily splits as much as tempo, vo2, lsd, etc) and at what distances.

You will find wide varieties of diets among even elite marathoners. Some might be sub-optimal. In my opinion, your diet affects your longevity more than it does your top performance. I compare it to flushing stuff down a garbage disposal pipe. At first, a poorly maintained pipe works just as well as a properly maintained one, but overtime the former becomes clogged up and dysfunctional, while the latter still works.

I personally eat much different than a lot of people. My principles are that a diet needs to be well-balanced, and that whatever I eat I must be able to run at a good pace 30 minutes later. And it must make me feel good when I run in general. Which makes me not eat much meat, no red meat, no milk products, no fast food, no soda pop, no unnaturally crafted sweets. A lot of fruit and vegetables, grains, nuts, and honey, occasional poultry and fish. Frequent meals.

[Tom]

Good questions Jeff, I've wondered about some of these issues myself. Thanks for the info in your response Sasha, I learned some new useful stuff to contemplate next time (ideally there won't a next time) I hit the wall.

[Superfly]

I don't have all the answers but I'll give you a rough look at my diet. I burn on avg. about 2,500 calories per day just running. So to keep up with the running and rest of life I eat around 5,000 calories per day.

Breakfast
Whey protein drink
Bowl of cold cereal (Raisin Bran or something like that)
Yogurt
Banana
Apple

Snack
Gatorade
Cliff Bar

Lunch
Gatorade or fruit juice (cranberry anything, orange, pink grapefruit)
Something like chicken stur fri with noodles or rice or
a foot long subway sandwich
Some kind of bread on the side of noodle dish
treat- cookie, pudding, yogurt, granola bar ect...

Snack
Juice
apple
dried fruit
almonds

Dinner
Noodle bowl, or bowl of some kind of soup, or Pizza or Salmon (Dinner is a free for all- We eat out a lot- not fast food. More like Chili's or Red Lobster type of stuff).
bowl of cold cereal
pop tart
juice
fruit smoothie

Anyways I'm not the best example but I've found somethings that work. When I have a race that week I really try to walk a straighter line with what I take in. If I don't have a race coming up within a week or so I pretty much eat whatever I can get my hands on because I'm always hungry.

I don't however drink soda, drink real milk (I've found soy milk works better with my stomach), eat at places like McDonalds and if I do it's like a chicken sandwich without the fires, and I do drink a lot of water too.

[Jon Allen]

Holy cow, Clyde, that's a lot of food.  I average 4000 calories a day but eat a ton less than you!  Wow!

Breakfast- cold cereal with skim milk (cheerios, shredded wheat, oatmeal), juice, banana
Lunch- yogurt, apple, big bag of veggies (broccoli, carrots), pbj sandwich, granola bar, small tv dinner (the $1.00 type).  I start eating lunch at 9 am and sperad it out until 2 pm or so.
Dinner- whatever my wife makes or we buy.  Usually rice and chicken or salmon, sometimes pasta, veggie, etc.
Snacks- varies by day- handful of almonds, pretzals, goldfish crackers (my kid is always eating them), or granola bar

I don't eat out too much, and if I do it is usually pretty cheap- Subway, Wendys, or pizza.  Pop only a few times a month- I'll usually get the light lemonade if they have it.  And I'm not above some ice cream or cookies or gummi bears on occasion. 

I'm currently running ~60 miles per week, and am maintaining weight or dropping a pound once in a while.  Once I get up to 80+ mpw, I eat a lot more- 2 sandwiches, 2 bananas, more apples, more fruit in general, more snacks, bigger dinner, etc.

[Adam R Wende]

During the day I’m usually pretty good but I typically indulge a little more at night. I’m also the one with the slowest marathon PR that has replied so you be the judge.
Breakfast: Orange/Banana/two packets instant oatmeal/mug of coffee
Snack: 1-2 granola bars with water
Lunch: Yogurt/Salad/fruit/cheese stick/candy bar/sandwich or leftovers from the night before/glass of water
Snack: 1-2 granola bars with water
Dinner: Usually a vegetable, grain, and meat. I will eat red meat usually 1-2 times per week but I do eat a lot of rice and chicken or fish and pasta. Last night was edamame/ground beef and spaghetti.
Post PM run: frozen fruit bar with large class of Gatorade, Tang, or lemonade
Snack: Bowl of ice cream/ chips and salsa / pretzels and salami/ pickles/ bowl of cereal w/ 2% milk/ sometimes a glass of Scotch or wine/ last night it was two hot dogs and 4 pickles. At night I’m usually craving salt.
The week before big races I try and eat as much pasta as possible. For “carbo loading” I go for the more than 5 days prior rule. I’ve played some with the carbo strip/load diet. I didn’t notice a significant improvement but I also didn’t notice any deficit. For that marathon I ate only meats and some vegatables 8 days out for two days with two harder runs. Then I ate more or less only pasta with some protein the final 6 days prior to the race. I did PR but my running was also better that year.

[ktjo]

That is alot of food! I was told by a trainer a while ago not to go over 1200 calories a day. I am up to running 5 miles a day (two times) and then I lift weights and cross train every day as well. Basically an hour and a half workout five days a week and usually something smaller on the 6th day. 
I do my best not to eat white flour or sugar. Nothing processed.  I mostly eat meat and veggtables with a whole wheat pasta. I drink a low carb slim fast before my run and i have one weight watchers yougert a day. (lower in sugar than others) 
I am trying to lose about 15 pounds also. 

I am new at this healthy eating stuff, so I am not by any means offering advice, but more wondering if I am hurting myself more than helping myself.  I am seriously shocked to see what you all eat.       

[Adam R Wende]

Keep in mind that most of us that replied are training over 70 even 100 miles per week. We need to eat this much to not disappear. If your goal is weight loss it is an entirely different matter...

[Superfly]

Not trying to lose any weight here. In fact there is nothing to lose. I was tested in November and was right around 2.5 % body fat. I'd guess now that I'm even a little leaner. I'm just trying to keep the fire burning. Run 110-125 miles per week for a few weeks in a row and your appetite will grow, and grow, and grow.

[adam]

I'm no marathoner (yet), but I would describe my training right now to be more oriented in that direction being base work. 

I'm amazed. I really don't think I eat enough for what I run (after reading some of y'alls diets).

pre-am run: half a banana, maybe some toast
breakfast: cereal, banana, bagel, oj (if we have it)
snack: something if I remember
lunch: soup, sandwhich, or leftovers, or pasta, salad
pm run
dinner: chicken, rice or pasta, bread, vegetables something like that.

I usually eat alot of what we do have, but listed out it doesn't seem nearly enough or right for 70-75 miles a week. In fact, I'm a little amazed that I have been doing that. Hopefully WIC will soon help us out, so we can get some more food.

[Dale]

Not trying to lose any weight here. In fact there is nothing to lose. I was tested in November and was right around 2.5 % body fat. I'd guess now that I'm even a little leaner. I'm just trying to keep the fire burning. Run 110-125 miles per week for a few weeks in a row and your appetite will grow, and grow, and grow.

2.5%??? I thought male athletes were usually around the 6-13% range and that minimal essential was 2-4%. 

[Superfly]

Hey I won't name anyone by name but there are guys who have less than me.

[wildbull]

I eat any thing! pass the gummy bears!   How do you get that low in body fat?  I am 17%  I am soooo fat! 

[Fredrick Teichert]

Fat is essential for optimal brain function. Superfly, choke down some butter before you start talking in tongues!

[Superfly]

I wouldn't mind talking in tongues... but maybe that's why I can't think straight half the time!