Will I get fast or am I learning to run slow?

[Fredrick Teichert]

Since I joined the blog, my new goal is to get to 70-80 miles a week with consistent 10 mile days. That's a whole new approach for me. My old schedule was four days a week including one long and at least one tempo/interval/hill with weights twice a week and three days of competitive basketball (Sunday off). I never did more than 40 miles in a week. And, honestly, I never got very fast.

I've thrown all that out the window and don't plan to do anything but build my base until I reach 10 miles, 5 days a week with a long run (15-20) on the 6th day. If I understand it right, I'm not even going to worry about speed until I get to that point? My concern is this: I've heard that if you run long distances slowly, you train yourself to run slow for long distances. What do you think?

Also, as I build up my base, do two "fives" (two-a-days) equal a "ten" (once-a-day)? Thanks in advance.

[James Winzenz]

1.  What is your definition of "slow" miles (i.e. what pace)?
2.  From what Sasha has told me, the important piece is the daily mileage.  How you get there is not quite as important.  I break my runs up into multiple segments wherever possible.  I believe you still reap the same aerobic benefits.  If you look at Sasha's blog, you will see multiple runs throughout the day.

Those questions out of the way, my own personal belief is that the purpose of core (easy) mileage is to a) improve your aerobic capacity, b) improve your muscular endurance and vascularization and c) strengthen the skeletal structure to handle the pounding of all those miles.  I am fond of the Lydiard approach personally (http://www.lydiardfoundation.org), many elite runners use a variant of this approach.  As far as running slow miles training you to run slowly, I think that is a myth, and I think that others will back me up.  From my own personal experience, every time I have tried running fast before my body was ready for it, I have gotten myself injured.  Last January I began running again after another injury, and started running at about 8:45/mile for my easy pace.  As my mileage and aerobic capacity has slowly increased, my easy pace has increased all by itself.  I am now at the point where my easy pace for my base miles is around 7:30/mile, which was actually just about my pace for my last marathon.  This is something Lydiard mentions.  As your aerobic capacity improves, you will naturally find your easy pace increasing without any extra effort on your part.  As far as waiting until you get to 65-70 mpw before adding any speedwork, I am personally in favor of utilizing tempo runs, and started inserting them in my training at approximately 40 mpw.  These are done, depending on the workout and length of the tempo, anywhere from predicted marathon pace to 1/2 marathon pace to 10K pace.  This may or may not fit your definition of speedwork, but the tempo runs are going to help train your body to run at faster speeds than your easy pace, and will also help you to run more efficiently.  You will gain a major benefit from all the core miles, but will gain even more from putting in some miles that are faster than your core pace.

[Jon Allen]

I agree with James that you can vary speed even on base mileage.  I believe the reference to no speedwork is refering at least partly to intervals, etc.  I am only at 50-55 mpw, but have some days where my runs are slower (8:00 pace), most days where they are medium (~7:00-7:30 pace), and some days where they are faster (6:00 or so for limited distances).  A lot of it is based on how I feel that day- if I feel real good, I will run faster.  Or I will do the middle half of the run at an up-tempo pace.  That way, you are still training your body for faster runs without much extra stress during your buildup phases.

Striders (short pick ups) are another good way to get some speed.  Try doing 20-30 second pickups during the middle of a run.

[Tom]

I wholeheartedly agree with everything James and Jonathan mentioned. I've followed this plan religiously for the last 6 mos or so and have been very pleased with the results. The crucial element for me and perhaps more so for runners like me who are in the masters age categories is to keep the easy runs truly easy. If anything error on the side of running in the slow end of your easy pace range. When in doubt slow down. This will allow you to utilize the tempo/speed run days more effectively and go all out on those days.

[jtshad]

I agree with what the others have said, but do believe that speed work is an essential part of race training.  Easy base mileage is the biggest key to improved aerobic capacity and will pay large dividends for your running. 

As for your question about two-a-days versus one long run per day...they are not quite equivalent but both approaches are beneficial.  While the 2-5M approach does not directly equate to some of the benefits of a 10M run, it does allow you have the benefit of fitting some speed work into your routine and an easy recovery run fairly effectively.  It also allows you to increase your mileage in a way that may fit your schedule better.  I do mostly two-a-days and have increased my pace over the past couple of years significantly, so it does work.

[Paul Petersen]

It's amazing how fast one can get with just consistent base. It seems that one can find 80-85% of their speed just from running easy miles day in and day out. The remainder must come from speed work,. but that is later down the road.

[James Winzenz]

Very true.  I would surmise that is directly related to increasing the aerobic portion of your total performance level (aerobic + anaerobic capacity).  True anaerobic speedwork has limited value because 1) there is a set limit in terms of being able to incur oxygen debt (between 15-20 liters total) and 2) once you start doing the speedwork to improve that component, you have to continue doing it to maintain it, potentially at the expense of the aerobic component.  Here's what Lydiard says:  "You don't make yourself great doing anaerobic training; you make yourself great doing aerobic training."

[adam]

I have found that when you are able to do so without injury, running twice a day, each day, is beneficial. You can determine different paces for different runs during the day. If you are tired in the morning you can take it easy for a few miles, then later in the day run faster for longer. Or, if you run 10 slower in the morning, you can always add 2-3 miles with strides later in the day to work on the faster turnover.

[Josse]

I don't know if anyone has said this but please build up to that mileage slowly.  I like the 10% rule (don't add more than 10% of your total weekly mileage per week).  And take a recovery week every 3-4 weeks.  This will make your chance of injury alot less. 
But I agree build the mileage before you do speed.  But tempos are great to feel like you are getting faster.

[James Winzenz]

I don't think anyone has mentioned that so for - it may have been inferred, or just assumed that this would be the case, but I absolutely agree.  That is one of the other things that has kept me injury-free for the past year - slow buildup of mileage.

[adam]

Yes, build up the mileage safely. But don't be so strict you can adapt to the training. I look at the weekly mileage like I would daily mileage. The more often you do a 10 mile run the easier it gets to cover 10 miles. You can also determine how you cover those 10 miles (fast, slow, half/half). So, in the same way, you don't have to think 50, then 55, then 60.5, rest, 55, 60.5, 66, rest in order to safely get up to your goal mileage- but you can always do something to change the workouts that week to become a better runner overall. Like 50 easy, 50 with a few harder intensity runs, 53 easy, 57, 54 harder, 60, 63, and so on until you reach your mileage goal. It may even take longer to increase this way, and some may disagree, but I think that by doing this you teach your body that it can handle those miles as a norm and you become stronger as a whole. After a few weeks of this you won't even consider 30-50 miles a week training (just as you wouldn't consider 3 miles a workout after running 8-10miles a day for a few months). Then you never have to think, "well last year I did an 8 week buildup to 70 miles for base, kept it for a month or two, then dropped back down 40 for speed." But instead, "I averaged 65 miles for the last 6 months, or 75 for the last year, now I'm ready to even pick it up to 80 or 90 this year and still can vary my workouts to include the faster work."

[Fredrick Teichert]

Thanks to all of you for your insight. My background is in competitive team sports and sprints. Running with antelope is a new experience for me so it's great to benefit from your experience. I'll ask more speed questions when I've established a good base. It's going to be tough to be patient.

[Jason Little]

I am in the same position.  I began running 10 months ago.  I have since ran two marathons and have registered for five additional this year all while following a structured, safe training program.  I need to shave 40 minutes to qualify for Boston.  I know I can, but I am stressed.  I started out running a average ( slow ) 10 minute miles and I am still running 10 minute miles.  I can not seem to gain speed even though I have tried several different ideas gathered from online and from magazines.  Does anyone have any suggestions?  I am considering taking creatine while I run because I know how good I feel while taking it at the gym.  I am considering trying accelarade rather than Gatorade.

[Jon Allen]

Jason- without having any of your training history on your blog page, it is very difficult to analyze your runs and give advice.  Update it, then let us know.

I can give my opinion in 2 areas.  First, you mention you have only been running for 10 months but have already done 2 marathons.  In addition, you are planning to do 5 more this year.  For most people, it can take 6 months to a year before they are really ready to race a marathon.  In addition, most elite marathoners only race 2-3 marathons per year, max (other than Sasha).  In order to run your best, you need a good base, plus you need to peak and even taper at the right time.  Rushing 5 marathons may actually prevent you from running your best.  If your marathon pace is the same as training (i.e. 10 minute miles), it suggests that you may just be "running" your marathons rather than really "racing" them.  I am running 2 road marathons this year (May and October), and 2 trail marathons (June and September).  However, I am only trying to peak at the October race, treating the other 3 as a real good long run, and not even tapering for the trail runs.  In other words, I won't go all out.

My second opinion- using accelarade versus gatorade will have zero impact on your running, unless your body does not react well to gatorade for some reason.  They are very similar.  In addition, other than keeping you hydrated during long runs and long races, you don't really need them (i.e. don't chug sports drink all day- drink water.  Use the sports drink only immediately before/during/after long runs).

My two cents.

[Paul Petersen]

Jason - Jon said it well.

If I were you, I'd stay away from marathons for several months or even a year and just work on base and consistency. In the long haul, running 6-7 days/week without exception, getting in the long runs, getting in the tempo runs, and getting in the intervals will do wonders for your marathon time. In the meantime, you can work on your 5K, 10K, and half marathon. The marathon distance is beast, and should only be run a couple times a year. It usually takes several years of consistent training to become good at the marathon. That said, I think with good training, you can get that BQ! Set your sights high and train hard.