Post long run cookie toss

[Kurt Stevens]

I’m looking for some advice on solving a problem I’m having vomiting after my long runs. I seems that the 14+ milers have a way of tossing my cookies. Between about 5 and 45 minutes after the run ends I will usually get the chills, cold sweats, followed by a prayer to the porcelain gods. I have tried various pre run foods, I have electrolyte drinks out every two miles, I use the “Sport Beans” that jelly belly makes, I get some food right away after the run ends, but it doesn't seem to work.  I don't feel like the runs are too difficult, I exert far more effort in my interval training with out any of the same problems. To me it seems like a fuel supply issue, but I haven’t been able to fix it. Any Ideas? Am I looking at this form the wrong perspective?

[Colby]

Kurt,

  I am by no means an expert on this, but the only thing I can suggest is try backing off your pace 30-45sec per mile and see if that helps. At least if you do that you can completely count out intensity and focus on food, hydration, etc. to fix your problems. Sorry about it though, I know it would bug me big time!

[Mikal Epperson]

I used to have this problem quite frequently because I had been over hydrating.  For me; fluids were a problem mainly when it was hot outside.  Does your stomach slosh during or after your long runs? 

[Tim]

Holy cow is this the famous Kurt Stevens?  good to see you running again.  I had the same issues and if I don't plan right I still get them.  I had to focus more on my protein intake, on really hard days I still feel sick but it is ok based on what I eat afterwards.  It also helps me to get just a little protein or carbs in before I run, like some peanut butter on toast.  I also noticed that if I slowed down even though it seemed to easy the more the symptons dissappeared.  As my body gets more and more in shape I am able to speed up.  i have also read that it could be caused by wachy sugar levels but I don't have a blood sugar tester.

[Joe Furse]

Perhaps less eating/fueling/hydrating might help you.  I've been doing some reading on the subject, and it seems that overdoing the fueling/electrolytes/hydration can be just as much of a problem as not getting enough.  Finding the right balance takes some experimentation, and like nearly everything else in running is highly individual.  I've found that when I just drink to my thirst and only eat if I feel that I need to (obviously there may be exceptions to this in some races...like 100 milers) I experience fewer problems.  Maybe something to try.

[Chad Robinson]

Joe, I completely agree with the thought that our thirst and hunger mechanisms are at most times smarter than we think.  I tend to be a minimal hydrating/fueling runner in both training and races.  The Science of Sport guys have several posts about that.

[Kurt Stevens]

Thank you all for your comments and advice. I will be sure to experiment with it to see if I can dial in on the cause of the problem. 

Colby-
I had completed a 14.47 mile run yesterday. During this run I focused on slowing the pace down form  a goal of 6:30-6:45 range to 7:10+. I ended up with an average of 7:05. This also slowed my avg. HR by 10 beats per min. It seamed to do the trick. I felt quite normal after the run, however I would like to see what I can do to pick up the pace again. Or perhaps I think I’m in better shape than I really am.  Thank you for your advice.


Mikal Epperson-
Yes, my stomach does slosh on my long runs. Perhaps I am over hydrating. I have been setting out water bottles at the 4 mile mark and every 2 miles after that. perhaps I should make it every 3 miles or less. Thank you for your help.

Tim-
Famous Kurt Stevens??? I’m defiantly not famous... I’m just an old, formally fat guy, that likes to run.  Is this a Tim that I would know from High School?  Tim A. perhaps? In either case, thanks for the tip on the protein. I stopped by the store and  picked up a protein mix and a giant bag of frozen chicken. My sister, Wendy also recommended the peanut butter and toast. I’m going to be giving it a shot on my next long run.

Joe Furse-
You are soo right about the individuality of runners needs. I am going to be experimenting with the advice in this post to see what will end up helping this old man get some running done. Lets be honest here, I can use all the help I can get.
 What book is it that you are reading? I would love to take a look at it.

Chad Robinson-
Thanks for the heads up on the Science of Sport posts. I will be taking a deeper look at it.

[Joe Furse]

I was actually probably reading the same Science of Sport posts Chad was referring to.  That's a great blog...highly recommend it. 
This ought to get you started:  http://www.sportsscientists.com/search/label/hyponatremia

I think in all aspects of long distance running, whether it is how much to train, how hard to train, how much to drink, how [insert almost anything running related here], we have to learn how our body reacts to a given practice, and what makes us "tick" the best.  Sure, there are general principles that can help almost everyone, but how we apply them is, again, a very individual thing, and it's sometimes tricky to learn how to determine how we apply the techniques we learn. 

Additionally, in reference to Colby's comments, it's better to do most of your training at an "easy" pace.  You definitely do need to have workouts that focus on the "speed" aspect of things (and again, how much you need is largely individual), but the bulk of your miles need not be at anything more than an "easy" pace.  This relates to your gastric issues because higher intensity always has a bigger effect on the state of your GI.  I usually don't have problems, but on the rare occasion that I do, it's almost always caused in part by high intensity, combined with perhaps improper (usually too much in my case) hydration and/or fueling.   If you're training for the marathon, some general principles on how to approach the marathon training-wise, which have helped a lot of people on this blog, can be found here:  http://fastrunningblog.com/forum/index.php/topic,1076.0.html

[Colby]

Hey Kurt,

  Glad to see things are getting better for you. Maybe try running at a 7:10+ pace for a few weeks/months to get into a little bit better aerobic shape, then jump your pace back down and you hopefully you'll be over that hurdle.

[seesuerun]

I have had this issue as well minus the vomiting. When my weekly mileage gets high I would get a sort of fluish and crash 10 minutes to an hour after my run. Including chills, nausea and a cold sweat. I could do nothing more than lay down for a while. I researched it and what I came up with was, that for me at least, it was a problem of not immediate refueling but a lack of adequate fuel that already existed in the muscle.

My understanding is that we receive a great amount of our energy from not only what we take in immediately before and during the run but from the energy stores directly in the muscle. When our mileage gets high we begin to deplete those stores and some of us are prone to this more han others. A post workout drink immediately after a workout, every workout of the week is a good way to counter this. Exercise is like an insulin shot and if a postworkout meal is digested quickly enough after the workout the body will take the energy and deposit it directly into the muscle to use for the next workout but this window of opportunity, according to some, closes around 45 minutes after the workout is over.

A postworkout drink that contains a fast absorbing protein (like protein whey), no fat (since it slows down digestion) and some simple carbohydrates is a perfect post workout drink. Chocolate milk (which has the right ratio of carbs and protein) is also a good postworkout drink. It needs to be taken immediately after or the window of opportunity for the body to take it directly into the muscle before exercise effect wears off.

Anyway. I am not sure if this is your issue but it made a world of a difference for me. I hope it helps! Good luck! I hope I got all my facts right!