Need BQ Marathon Plan Advice for November with Olympic Tri Race in September

[Daniel Brunson]

I'm training for two races in the Fall.  My marathon is November 20th.  I would like to BQ in the marathon which for me is a time of 3:10.  I'm also training for an Olympic distance triathlon on September 11th.  My goal is not to smash any speed records in the triathlon, but I'm having trouble finding an advanced marathon plan that accommodates twice weekly bike rides and twice weekly swims.  Do those of you who have experience training for both types of races have any advice?  Am I biting off too much at once to go for the BQ while also training on the bike twice a week for the first 8 weeks of the marathon training?  This is my second marathon.  In my first I finished in 3:35:18.       

[Jon Allen]

I'm not a triathlete by any stretch, but I've trained with some.  The only advice I can give would be to do your swim/bike on your easy running days, and do them as doubles (i.e. do 1 run and1 swim or 1 run and 1 bike that day).  If BQ is your main goal, don't skip running days, though.  And don't over-stress yourself by adding bike/swim on your hard running days.  My two cents.

[AndyBrowning]

The FIRST trainig program might be worth considering.  It has 3 days per week running with heavy cross training.  http://marathon.harvard.edu/images/first_first.pdf

[Daniel Brunson]

Thank you both for the good advice.  I like your profile image Jon, and you have a cool blog. 

[kevin marinkovich]

A lot of your training is going to depend on what your goals are for the tri?  If you are just trying to finish, which should be no problem if you are in BQ type of shape. I would plan your running schedule and then fill in a bike and a swim workout to round out your week. With the oly tri being of the shorter type, the quality training is shorter and higher intensity than that of marathon training.  I would use the cycling and swimming as kind of low intensity cross training while you are working on the BQ race. And then spend the winter months improving cycling and swimming.  Hope that helps a little bit. Good luck with it.

[Michael Laputka]

This was posted a while back by Paul Petersen, I think it's very sound advice.

"If the most common question I get asked is, 'How do I run a fast marathon?,' the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th ... most common questions have something to do with diet, running form, sleep, footwear, stretching, weights; anything but actual running. American runners seem to have an unending fascination with all these extra-curricular activities, yet we continue to get slower at running marathons ... If you want to improve your performance in the marathon, stop worrying about minimalist shoes, caveman diets, and new-age running form, and start worrying about getting out the door and running a little more than you did last week. High mileage works!"

- American marathoner Pete Gilmore telling the truth.

I can only speak from my own perspective.  I did not, and could not qualify for Boston until I was consistently running 60-70 miles a week for a year, running 6 days a week.  I dabbled in triathlon training a few years back.  I love to cycle and miss it dearly.  I had to cut 12 minutes off of my marathon time to qualify.  I couldn't do it for three years.  I kept trying different marathon plans and the best I could do was to continue to come in at 3:42.  One thing that remained the same over this three year period was my annual mileage, which averaged 35 miles a week. 

Once I doubled my mileage, it was a whole new world for me.  I improved my race times at all distances.  No magical speedwork, lactate threshold this that and the other, just mileage.  Every day running, doubles three times a week and usually one day off.  My bike sat in the basement collecting dust.  It was very hard, but doing both was impossible for me if I wanted to be a Boston Marathoner, husband, father and full time worker.

You need to cut 25 minutes off of your marathon.  It's time to decide what is most important.  Keep in mind, hitting your BQ time might not be enough to get in.  Registration last year was a competition.  If you want to actually run the marathon you probably need to shoot for an early registration benchmark which would begin at a sub 3:04:59.

Good luck, and be careful.  Aggressive goals take sacrifice for you and your family.  Keep it in perspective and keep it fun!

[Daniel Brunson]

I know you are right Michael about the mileage that it will take to really improve.  I think I am exactly where you were before you qualified.  I have been running about 30 miles per week for the past couple of years.  I got all excited about triathlons this year when my new running buddy last year started talking to me about his Ironman competition he had done and the one he was about to begin training for last fall.  I did my first triathlon this spring.  This is the first year I have incorporated biking and swimming into my weekly workouts.  When I reread Sasha's article on achieving a BQ I realized that I might not have time for the triathlon.  His prescription of increasing weekly mileage to 10 miles a day six days a week is exactly what I need.  I think I'm just slowly coming to terms with the fact that I probably won't be able to train as much for the triathlon with the running that it will take to qualify.  I also work a lot of hours and have a family just like many of you here.  I know I need to make a choice.  I want the BQ.  I also know about the insane short time period that it took for all the slots to fill up.  It is amazing how popular Boston has become. 

Thanks to everyone on this thread for the help and sound advice.