Utah Valley Marathon Strategies, Banter, and Hype

[Scott Hughes]

This is going to be an exciting race for both the half and the full. I am glad that I decided to change to the half so that I can see everyone come in on the full marathon. Us St. George guys are going to be represented well in the full.
Good luck to everyone this weekend!

[Paul Petersen]

I need help in my driving strategy for UVM, as there has been much hype about the I-15 road construction. I'm coming in from the north, and staying near BYU campus. What exit should I get off at in order to be avoid sitting in construction traffic?

I'm sure I could figure this out with some advanced googling, but I respect the opinions of locals more.

[Steve P]

I think they got that bridge in place in American Fork, so it shouldn't be too bad. If it were me, I'd stay on I-15 and get off on the University Parkway exit. In Utah County, the only other way is State St, but that's a long, painful process, probably worse than construction. But I hope I don't lead you astray. Maybe others have a different opinion?

P.S. Best wishes on your race!

[Josse]

My advice is to leave early and you should be fine.  But do agree that the Unv. Parkway will be you best bet.

[Paul Petersen]

Thanks. I will try to leave decently early, but I still need to put in 8 hours at work on Friday, so will probably leaving around 3PM or so.

[Mikal Epperson]

I just have to say this was a great race, and I will definitely be returning!  I can't think of anything about this race that I did not enjoy!  GREAT JOB  to Hyrum and everyone involved in putting this event together!

[Jon Allen]

Jeff 1:06:30
Paul 1:07:15
Hayden 1:09:00
Lindsey 1:13:00

Marathon:

me 2:32:00
Dave 2:35:00
Clyde 2:36:00

Not bad, Sasha- about 30 sec off on Jeff, Lindsey, Dave, and Clyde.  Closer on Hayden.  Paul killed the prediction, though.  But I'm surprised you didn't slow down 2 seconds just so you would tie your prediction for yourself!

[Superfly]

Yeah those were right on the money.
Great race today ran well and great course. I'll spread the word that it's a winner. Looking forward to running it for years to come.

[mike warren]

Ok, so now that the race is over whats your verdicts?  I think St. George is 5 to 6 minutes faster.  There were a few more uphill grades then I expected and at elevation. the last 10k is just so much faster at St. George and mentally easier. Very fun race and a great course, no doubt I will be back. 

[Sasha Pachev]

Paul ended up being the dark horse. I have told him before that he was possibly a 2:10-2:13 guy in sheep's clothing. He took some of the disguise off on Saturday. I just did not expect it to come off at this time in this amount with no warning. Jeff's prediction was off due to the cold he caught before the race. I did tell him a week ago that one of the most important elements of race preparation is to wash your hands, and he did, but it apparently it was not enough. He works taking care of the handicapped individuals and changes huge diapers at his work about 30 times a day. So he is at a very high risk for catching something all the time.

St. George is at least 6:00 faster, but possibly more like 8:00. Definitely closer to 8:00 for somebody slower than 3 hours. 6% uphill grade is not fun at 5500 feet. St. George does have uphill grades, but the total elevation gain is only 600 feet with the net drop being a nice gradual 2600 feet with the second half of the race being below 4000 feet. UVM has total elevation gain of 1000 feet with the first half between 5900 and 5200 feet, and second never dropping below 4500. As I said many times earlier, uphill grade at a high elevation in a marathon is very destructive to a fast performance. It did not surprise me that the winner of the race, Hillary Cheruiyot failed to break 2:21 in spite of having every reason to go sub-2:20. Peter Omae and Patrick Rotitch tried more diligently to break 2:20, in fact 1:10:14 is a perfect split for the goal, but they both blew up, and Cheruiyot ended up coming from behind and winning. It takes a higher caliber runner to break 2:20 on that course, your average money earning Kenyan will end up in the 2:21 - 2:23 range, as we saw on Saturday.

[Superfly]

I'm not sure about it being that much faster than STG. Maybe 2 min's. The hills on UV did slow you down but none of them are very long. STG has some long, tedious climbs. Veyo is just about a mile long. Then Dammeron is a total of over 2 miles and then Winchester is just under a mile (.90). Those kind of long climbs break you down more than some shorter little ones at altitude. One thing I learned about UV is that the finish is a lot easier than it seems it would be. I think you could push the first 20 miles of UV and still manage to keep your head above water on the last 10k.
But we'll never be able to tell. Most of us will be in much better race shape come STG and so if I run a 2:23 at STG it will be because I'm ready to race not because STG is that much faster than UV.
UV left a nice taste in my mouth and it's got me hankering for next years race. I feel like you could just about red line it on that course all most the entire way without blowing up too bad. But maybe I'll blow up next year and eat my words:).

[Paul Petersen]

The half course was pretty fast. You could really roll on the downhill in the canyon. None of the hills were very long, but they were certainly present. I thought it was similar speed as the TOU Half, perhaps faster based on pure topography and layout, but TOU often has a cyclone-like wind that blows you out of the canyon midway in the race. From what I understand, you can get a good canyon wind many times in the Provo canyon, but it was not present on Saturday.

Obviously I haven't run the marathon course, but based on looking at the Top 10 times and some cross-referencing, I imagine Sasha's assessment of 6-8 minutes off St George isn't bad. I might lean more toward the 6-minute range. "Ogden-like" may be another good description. St George is simply a magical course. Most people set their half marathon PR on the second half of the course, and the first half simply isn't as slow as some people think it is. Yeah, vejo and dammeron are real hills, but are not killers, especially if you just relax. You can make it up and then some on the second half.

I think as people run UVM more over the years and figure out the course and its nuances, we'll see plenty of people under 2:20. If I can get my trials time this fall, then I'll certainly give it a shot next year.

[Superfly]

Ok. Clearly the second half at STG is out of this world and fast. But lets look at the how the halves compare. At UV I ran the first half in 1:17:28 and I was totally laid back. Not racing at all- letting people run away from me getting dropped left and right by guys that ended up running 2:50+. I feel like with that same effort at STG I'd have ran around a 1:21 first half (In fact in 2006 when I ran a 2:36 at STG I ran a 1:20:20 first half). So STG's first half is about 4 mins slower than UV's first half. Lets say 3 to be generous. Now is STG's second half 9-10 mins faster than UV's second half? I personally don't think so. I ran a 1:18:50 on the second half at UV. On that same effort I think I'd have run around a 1:15 maybe a 1:14 second half at STG. So what do you get with the half totals? Around a 2:35-2:36. So lets say I'm off a little on the first half (2 min's tops) your still only about 2 maybe stretching it 3 min's faster on STG than at UV. IMHO.     

[Paul Petersen]

All I know is that nobody broke 2:20 (despite several of the top runners having sub-2:20 PRs on non-aided courses, including 2:18 on a very difficult Seattle RnR course). And aside from James H, who has been long deserving of a big PR, nobody I know came even close to their St George times. You can look at the women for this as well. Yeah, I realize that most people get in a little better shape by October, but not 6 minutes better shape. In other words, I don't think the entire field was out of shape and/or sandbagging. IMHO. 

All that concrete surely came into play as well.

[Dave Holt]

I better be in 6+ minutes better shape by October!  (do I get to put IMHO also?)