Seeking advice for the last 7 weeks of training, coupled with a week of illness.

[Michael Laputka]

My main concern at this point is that I've been sick for the last week.  I ran a 22 miler last Saturday (Feb 20th).  I knew I was getting sick but I knew I could do this run and I did not want to put if off.  This run may have brought my illness to head, which is probably good.  With my goal race being April 17 (Salt Lake Marathon) I figured getting sick sooner rather than later is a good thing.  I think what I have is the standard issue head cold, however, I'm extremely fatigued.  I did not run again until Friday February 26th (5.28 miles) and raced a 15K today with very substandard result. 1:11:45.

I'm feeling better and I can tell my illness is on its way out.  Should I just resume training like nothing happened?  That's my plan.

As for the rest of my training, it's going to look something like this.

Feb 28 to Mar 6
Sun 10 miles
Mon off
Tues 4.65 am 8.65 pm total 13.3
Wed 4.65 am 8.65 pm total 13.3
Thrs 4.65 am 8.65 pm total 13.3
Fri 4.65 am .63 pm total 5.28
Sat 24
Total 79.8     (I might add and extra mile or two on the pm runs Tues Wed Thrs)

Mar 7 to Mar 13
Sun 10 miles
Mon off
Tues 4.65 am 8.65 pm total 13.3
Wed 4.65 am 8.65 pm total 13.3
Thrs 4.65 am 8.65 pm total 13.3
Fri 4.65 am .63 pm total 5.28
Sat 13
Total 68.8

Mar 14 to Mar 20 - will be the same as Feb 28 to Mar 6

Mar 21 to Mar 27 - will be the same as Mar 7 to Mar 13

Mar 28 to April 3 - will be the same as Mar 7 to Mar 13 except the Tues - Thrs pm run will be only 6.65  bringing my weekly mileage down to 62.8

April 4 to April 10 - will be the same as Mar 7 to Mar 13 except the Tues - Thrs pm run will be only 4.65  bringing my weekly mileage down to 56.8

April 11 to April 16 
Sun 10
Mon off
Tues 4.65 am 4.65 pm total 9.3
Wed 4.65 am 4.65 pm total 9.3
Thrs 4.65 am 4.65 pm total 9.3
Fri off
Total 37.9
Sat RACE


This gives me two more long runs before the race, should I do a third?
FYI my previous long runs are:
Dec 12  18 miles
Jan 3    20.5 miles
Jan 23   22 miles
Feb 6    24.15 miles
Feb 20  22 miles

Please look over my blog, I have about 10 months of history.  My recent races are a flat 5 and 10K, 20:32 and 42:57, Jan 30th and Feb 13th 2010.
My marathon goal time is 3:30, which would be a Boston qualifier for me.

[dave rockness]

One week off should not be an issue...I'd go by feel next week (listen to your body) and if you feel ok continue on with your planned schedule.  Just my 2 cents- I'm sure others will weigh in on this. 

[Sasha Pachev]

Your long runs are way too long. That could have had something to do with getting sick. The paradox of training for the marathon is that the meat and potatoes that get you in shape are frequent runs that are longer than 10 but shorter than 20. This is something that many coaches have noticed (thus it is rather uncommon for an elite runner to go longer than 22 in a long run on a regular basis), and this is something I can strongly confirm from the last 10 years of my training. I used to think "if I just extend my long run as close to 26 as possible I will not hit the wall".  Yet out of my 40+ marathons in that period of time my strongest closing 10 Ks came when the long run was kept at 20 and it was backed up by good mileage throughout the week and training at race pace or faster in high volume. The biggest blowups happened when I got ambitious and pushed the long run past 24 on a regular basis. Let me tell you, this is a very disappointing experience because you worked hard and you are getting the results that are the exact opposite of what you hoped, and I've eaten that humble pie more than once. I learned very well what Renato Canova expressed in an interview as "You can go out and run for three hours, and you are no good for the marathon!"

In your situation, you might benefit from cutting your long run to 18 and finishing the last 5 miles at sub-8:00 pace. See if you can do 7:30s in the last 5. If you have energy, you can even push one of your midweek runs. Run as much as you feel would be healthy at sub-8:00 pace.

Recovering from sickness is a tricky business. It is better to underdo than to overdo, and it is easy to overdo. Do not expect anything. Just go out and run by feel. Do not get overambitous. Listen to your body. When you run SLC, expect a blowup, start slower than you think you should. Then if the blowup is not happening, rejoice and be thankful. If it is, turn off the engine, and coast to the finish at the slowest pace that you are not embarrassed to run. This will help you recover quickly, assimilate some of your pre-SLC training as well, get back to your routine ASAP, and then you can rock it in a fall marathon.

[Michael Laputka]

Regarding the anticipated blow up, is it due to my training or being sick?

I think I'm almost recovered.  I backed off on my run Saturday thinking I'd put down a 15 to 18 miler today (Sunday) but I didn't have it in me.  So I did 10 miles with the last 5 sub 8, each mile descending to 7:25, which was my time for mile 10.

I still plan on doing two more long runs, I'm just a week delayed.  I'll shoot for March 13th and 27th.

[Sasha Pachev]

When the long run is too much of a spike in volume compared to the rest of the week the blow ups are likely. Pre-race sickness increases the chances of a blowup. Also, if you ever invested into race performance prediction, always predict a blowup unless the runner has run 5 marathons prior with no blowups.

This is important to know, because if you are expecting a blowup at the start and pace yourself too conservatively, and the blowup was not going to happen, you might lose a couple of minutes due to being too conservative, no more. However, if you are wrong the other way, you can easily lose 20 minutes.

[Joe]

So you would advise first-time marathoners to play it overly conservative due to high-bonk percentages?  Just curious - I'm planning for my 1st marathon to be almost a year from now but I like to hear different strategies.

[Sasha Pachev]

It depends on a number of factors. Some people will crash no matter what, so they may just as well run fast while they can. Others will crash much worse with a more aggressive start. You should always come to a marathon with the understanding that the second half could be problematic in spite of your very best efforts to make it otherwise. It also helps a lot to have the humility to realize in the first 6 miles that your fitness is 10 minutes slower than what you hoped for, and take that instead of 30 minutes slower.

In your case it would depend on your goal and your fitness. E.g. if you want to run 3:10 to BQ, and you've run a half in 1:23, I would recommend something like a 1:33 first half, and then see what you can do in the second. Assuming you are properly trained, with 1:23 half fitness 1:33 opening half will give you a 90% chance that you will BQ. At the same time, if you were ready to crack 3:00, you'd still have a shot.

Now suppose you have the same fitness, but you already have BQ in the bag, and you have a mindset of sub-3:00 good everything else not that good. Then open with 1:28 and hang in there hoping you do not come back to the 3:00 guy.

Sometimes you hear that the first 6 miles can kill your marathon if you go out too fast. I would say not quite. You can be pretty aggressive in the first 6 and still live, and you can jog the first 6 and still die. Chances are not that low for either possibility. I've run 51 marathons and I've had probably 10 in the fast first 6 and live category, and about 10 in the slow first 6 and die category. You can really blow a marathon by picking up the pace at the wrong spot. This usually happens when you start out way too slow and feel obligated to make up for it.

Proper marathon pacing is a very difficult beast. Even pace does not always produce the fastest time. I believe the key to running a good marathon is constant mile by mile pace adjustment by feel.
 

[Joe]

No, that's not good enough, I want absolutes!  JK, thanks for the input - I don't think I'll be within shouting distance of BQ by January but I get what you're saying.  The last thing I want to do is bonk, I'd rather just have an enjoyable time on the first go-round.

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

[Sasha Pachev]

Joe - then just go out through the first half about 10 minutes slower than what you think you should unless 5 miles into it it starts feeling painfully slow. But even then, do not speed up too much, just throw away the pacing and go by feel.