Fast Running Blog 5 Miler For Strong Families Discussion

[Ted Leblow]

Sasha,

I strongly recommend you look at another date for this race. There is several conflicts with this date with others that have been making plans for this date for some time now. I would suggest a date of 1 August as there are virtually no other races on this date at this time and this would give more an opportunity to run.

The first conflict is with MaryAnne's race that has been planned on this date for a long time. Additionally you have placed your race at the same time as her race and on the same course. Although I know you and MaryAnne have had some disagreements as of late I do not think this is a good thing to do and can only create problems. Although one can quickly respond with an I don't care response and that she should reschedule her race I really don't think is the right thing to do. If for some reason you really want to conduct another race on the 11th of July versus another date with less races being offered to the community then I suggest at a minimum to find an alternate location for your race.

The second conflict is with the Red Hot Pink Chicks 1/2 Marathon. They have planned this for awhile and have announced this on April 10th on the blog. Although this is just another fun, free  race and may not have a big draw I again think it is not the best plan to put another race on the same day.

As a whole I think it is best if we all try to at lest play nice within our running community. We really don't need to try and compete with one another with local Provo races. I think it is better for everyone if when we can deconflict races within the same community.

Additionally looking at the Utah Race Calendar August 1st would be a good day for another pay day race. Currently July 4th has plenty of races, July 11th has the above and a few more around Utah, July 18th has a few races but none in Provo, and July 24th has Des News and Pioneer Day. However, the 1st of August basically has no real races to speak of that I could find in Utah Valley.

So, based on the above I highly recommend that you adjust your date to another date (August 1st). In my opinion this is the right thing to do (WWJD). At a bare minimum at least move your location to deconflict but this still puts at least three races on the same day in Provo.

Just my 2 cents!

“Do the right thing. It will gratify some people and astonish the rest.” -- Mark Twain

[Jon Allen]

Just curious- how does this race relate to strong families?

[Josse]

I agree with Ted, I didn't realize this was the same day as Marion's race and I am doing that.  Maybe you could team up and do the timing and have it a part of your little thingy.  You know put up some money for the top 3 based on your time standards.  And then still have your 5 miler on a different date,  I like Aug. 1.

[Ted Leblow]

Maybe it needs to have some special kids races and family fun activities following the 5 miler. Something like 1/2 mile and mile races for kids and then maybe some silly family races such as a 3 legged race or something. You could even add a stroller division during the 5K for those with younger babies. Just some thoughts on making the race live up to its name. any other ideas?

[Josse]

Good idea Ted.  No comment Sasha?

[Sasha Pachev]

I moved the start to 7:00 AM to avoid the conflict with Mary Ann's race. In the afterthought, I should have made it 7:00 AM to begin with as it does get quite hot by 8:00 AM in July. August 1st is not a good day - it is too close after DesNews and Bryce Canyon. There is a good reason no other race director put his race on August 1st :-)

Regarding multiple races, I do not have the inner drive to deal with the complications this introduces. And I think after all we are better off without it anyway. Any reason a person older than 7 could not train to run 5 miles? Let this be a challenge for them.

 

[ktjo]

I signed up Sasha and I was going to sign up my 8 year old. Do I have to make a new account for her?  I think when I tried to sign her up it signed me up again.   

[Sasha Pachev]

Yes, each runner needs to have his own account.

[adam]

So, I'm confused as to why there are all these problems as of late with everyone's races...

Is there something that everyone is trying to prove? There aren't that many fast runners around the provo area that actually race, so what's the point of holding multiple races on the same day? Besides Mary Ann's and Sasha's and the Hot Pinks, there are probably other races being held in the area that same day. The turnout is just lower for all the races. Is the competition to see who gets the best runners, develops them according to their philosophies, and to create something they would want to do again and again?  Or is it to go out and compete? Or is it to steal other runners from other races and convert them to the right path of racing? Or what?

The fact of the matter is that all of these races, with the exception of the Hot Pinks Half, as it actually has potential as a repeat race, even if it isn't intended to be, will inevitably die out, unless something is done to make them worthwhile. To be blunt with it as I see it, Mary Ann's races need more organizational help and to start on time. It's hard to do with few people, I know. But if it means you set up your course at 6AM instead of 8AM, its what makes the difference in maintaining people. Nobody likes to warm up and be ready to run at 9AM with the start being 15-30 minutes off. Sasha's five mile course is nice and boring. Maybe it's just me, but it's pretty lame. Good for a tempo or other things, not hard to get lost, but it doesn't bring anything to the table in terms of a fast course or knowing that competition will be there. Yes there are incentives, but in a sense, their really aren't. If you're the race director you shouldn't pocket the money. If there is no competition there besides Sasha and Jeff, you might as well just divide the money between yourselves before the race starts. Rather than do it every two months, it would probably be better off as a weekly night race done for a few weeks out of the year, and then pick back up again after a month or two lay off. Just like a local track season circuit or something. Then do the pay outs at the end of the season circuit based on placing, with time bonuses. Then people might actually consider doing it on a consistent basis and you would get more runners.

I am happy that I will not be living in Provo in a week with this kind of thing going on. This stuff is just getting stupid. The endorsement rules are well intentioned, but end up driving people away. A smarter thing to do would be to allow posting of races and competitions with the Subtitle *FASTRUNNINGBLOG/SASHA APPROVED or *THIS RACE IS NOT FASTRUNNINGBLOG APPROVED, allowing the runners to choose whether or not they would like to participate instead of having to go to other sites and other places to find races, and giving race directors the ability to conform their races to the endorsement rules if they so choose. I would much rather do the Hot Pinks half if I were to stay here than have to pretend to throw my support between any number of races and race directors competing for each others inexsistance. How does anything like that remotely support local running and development of runners?

[Jeff Linger]

Rather than do it every two months, it would probably be better off as a weekly night race done for a few weeks out of the year, and then pick back up again after a month or two lay off. Just like a local track season circuit or something. Then do the pay outs at the end of the season circuit based on placing, with time bonuses. Then people might actually consider doing it on a consistent basis and you would get more runners.

Here in St Louis the St Louis Track Club runs a variety of these types of circuits. In the winter they do a series of runs to prepare people for a spring marathon called the Frostbite series. Races are anywhere from 15k - 30k with each race also holding a shorter distance option from 2k - 5 miles. In the spring and summer they run a track series, a road series, and a pace series (this is actually pretty interesting with points going not only for your finishing place, but how close you come to predicting your time as well). Races are $5 or a flat fee for all of them. Usually they run between 5 and 8 races for a series with your top and bottom finishes dropping out. Prizes are awarded for the circuit, not individual races, with a minimum number of races required to be in the prizes. Additionally, they sometimes require anyone competing in the series to sign up to work as a race volunteer for 1 race.  If anyone is interested in how this works you can check it out at www.stlouistrackclub.com and click on the link to the calendar on the left, then just click on any of the series race links and you'll be taken to the overall series information.

[Lisa Thoma]

I think it's great that Sasha and Marianne and all race directors are putting on as many options for runners to choose from as possible.  I certainly hope race directors don't go out and purposely try to compete with other races.

I went to help volunteer at the 2 races Marianne put on that started late and they were only 20 minutes late, not 30, and it was when she had you helping her mark her course.  She told me that she told you to mark the first part first, then the end later, so she could start on time, but the you marked the end first, so everyone had to wait for you to finish the first part.  Then you  asked her the last minute if you could run the race, so she waited just for you.  It doesn't do her any good to pay volunteers to help her if you don't do it the way she plans it, then complain about the resulting problems. 

Marianne's races have been steadily improving over time, and they are not dying out.  I'm sure that Sasha's will grow too.  I went to her first ones last year and they have made huge improvements.  They are getting bigger, too.  She is putting her whole heart and soul into these with her limited resources.  Recently she got a spot for the St. George Marathon to raffle out to her July and August participants.  I know lots of people will do anything to get in.  She also got a billboard put up in Lehi.  She's working every day on them.  You don't know how much work it takes to put on the kind of series she's doing. 

I have been Marianne's friend for some time and I know why she started her race series.  She's not trying to steal any runners from other races.  She is just trying to supplement the races that are around here to fill in the gaps when there aren't any local races going on, to provide a cheaper, closer opportunity to run with others and improve and make it fun.  She tried to schedule them on days when there weren't any road races in Provo.  In fact, she even advertises other races on the same day as her on her website and hands out flyers for other race directors.  The closest race to Provo when she scheduled it back in January was in Mona that day, and not everyone has cars and can afford to drive 70 minutes round trip, which costs $7 in gas, not to mention wear and tear, and pay double what Marianne charges.  Also, Marianne has cash prizes for 8 winners, so they get in virtually free.  Other race directors often plan new races just a month or two before they happen, so it's not Marianne's fault that other races pop up the last minute on the day she plans them. 

Obviously the community wants these races as well as Sasha's or they wouldn't be patronizing them.  It should be up to the community to decide if they want to go to a big race that's been around a long time or a smaller, new race.  You said your self that "allowing the runners to choose whether or not they would like to participate instead of having to go to other sites and other places to find races" was ideal, so they should be allowed to run these small ones if they want. She also has races for kids and other distances that others don't often offer, and Sasha offers a 5 mile variety, so maybe that's another reason people come.  The Provo Freedom run has like 5000 runners every year, so it's not true that there aren't many runners who race.  They'll come from all over if they like what you offer.  I think they just don't have time to drive out of town all the time unless it's a big race and can't afford to race more than they do because it gets too expensive.

And it's not all about numbers.