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Sasha Pachev
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« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2009, 01:58:11 pm » |
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Jeff - my marathon pace is actually faster than 6:00, but I think 6:00 is the right pace for the Fat Mile for me just based on how everything feels. You do not have to go 20 miles, you can and should do this at the end of your easy runs every day. The idea is that once a day is better than once a week.
You should not gradually increase the pace prior to the mile. Here is what happens if you do. We will use me as an example, and guess the numbers based on the chart you've posted earlier:
For steady state:
7:20 pace 75/25 fat/carb ratio
6:30 pace 65/35
6:00 pace 50/50
However, if I speed up to 6:30 off 7:20 it will take some time to go from 75/25 to 65/35. Probably a mile. My average for that mile would be something like 70/30. Then I speed up to 6:00 off 6:30. Now I am going from 65/35 to 50/50 in about a mile. Average of, let's say, 57/43.
Suppose I go straight from 7:20 to 6:00, and manage to do it without triggering a rush of adrenaline. Then I will average something like 62/48 instead of 57/43.
Of course there are most definitely grave errors in the numbers, but this model is sufficient for the purposes of this discussion.
The idea is that we put every body function that releases muscle glycogen to sleep by running a slow pace for a while. And then all of a sudden we run hard. It is very important not to wake up those body functions, number one would probably be the production of adrenaline. The speed up needs to be sudden, but not of a fight or flight nature. To pull this off requires practice. If you manage that, then you will be able to push your body to metabolize fats at a faster rate. This is going against nature in a way, similar to trying to fly into outer space - the Earth wants you back. So your body is going to fight it. The pace will feel unusually hard, and you will feel sluggish. That is how you know you are doing it right.
So it becomes very tempting to step on the gas pedal a bit harder. You should, but you need to make sure it is not the adrenal gland that you are stepping on. An easy way to make this happen is to just run a 15-18 mile tempo till you bonk, and you will be forced to run like this in the last couple of miles. But you cannot do that more than once every 2 weeks, if you are very very fit you can do it maybe once a week several times in a row, but you still need breaks. We are looking for something you can do on a recovery day. So we learn how to do this at the end of a 10 mile run instead of 20.
Another way to think of it. Suppose you are a car, a special kind that improves its functions the more they are used rather than the opposite which is the case with real cars. You have automatic transmission and you are trying to train your second gear. So, step one, drive at a speed that puts you into second gear. Step two, push the gas hard enough so you get higher RPMs, go faster, but not so hard that it triggers a shift to the third gear.
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Rhett
Lurker
Posts: 32
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« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2009, 04:29:48 pm » |
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Jeff, thanks for starting this thread. It has been very insightful. I agree with you, that Boston is a unique course that needs to be specifically trained for. I just finished Boston for my third time and am still trying to figure it out. Unfortunately I tore my PF tendon a few days before Boston so was unable to fully test my training this time around, but I have been thinking about how I can better train for Boston's course next year.
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Paul (RivertonPaul)
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« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2009, 10:17:20 am » |
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Interesting thread. Thanks.
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Jeff Linger
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« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2009, 12:15:02 pm » |
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Yeah Rhett, I thought it was a course unlike anything I've ever encountered. If I had my training to do all over again I would have run the heck out of downhills and tried to ensure that every single long run ended with at least 3 miles of downhill somehow.
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dave rockness
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« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2009, 01:49:27 pm » |
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Jeff, couldn't agree with you more. It's hard to explain to a person who hasn't run it. None of the hills were at all intimidating, yet it was like they were perfectly place to pummel a human body. Before running it, the downhill seemed so attractive. While running, the initial downhill seemed so tame. However, as you progress, the downhill slowly (or for me more rapidly) sucks every ounce of strength from your legs. I was completely thrown by my body's response to the course, so much so that I must return to redeem myself. Obviously, I'm not alone.
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Jeff Linger
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« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2009, 02:18:08 pm » |
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Heh, Dave. My thoughts, as I finished the race and for days afterwards, was ... "that is one beast I wish not to try to slay again".
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Sasha Pachev
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« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2009, 02:45:27 pm » |
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Guys, come to Utah. After living and racing here for a year or two you will not be bothered by Boston downhill. Within an hour driving distance from Provo you can find just about any grade for just about as long as you want it. 1%, 2%, 3%, even 7%. Utah has also one of the lowest unemployment rates in the nation - only 5.2%. The only states that do better are Wyoming, North Dakota and South Dakota. If you lose your job and are thinking of somewhere to move...
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Jeff Linger
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« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2009, 12:16:37 pm » |
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I'm wondering what happens to a body if they frequently do their base runs slightly under the aerobic fat burning zone. For example, lets say one is a 3:00:00 marathoner. Let us assume for the sake of argument that they're pretty much mostly fat burning when running 7:55/mile up (1 minute/mile slower than race pace). What happens if they hit 4 days a week at 7:30-7:40s. Obviously they're getting some sort of glycogen/fat burning mix going on. But what will happen over time? Will the body attempt to make an adaptation such that it attempts to convert that pace into a fat burning pace? I guess my question is, is the body's natural inclination to attempt to adapt towards fat burning, so long as the pace isn't too beyond the fat burning pace? Or does the body simply become more efficient at glycogen usage?
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